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[Cthulhu]

Came back when I realized it'd been released.  Made a tzeentch warband, the Black Flock.  Did pretty well but had a lot of trouble collecting wyrdstone.  Won all my missions pretty handily and was getting some decent equipment.

Then I found out it's actually Verminheim.  Skaven won Skubhammer, got their own video game, and now here they are in Mordheim.  They've got the classic skaven speed and skill but this version seems to have decided they should also do the most damage and have the most health, which is a questionable choice.

I'm guessing it's just the low levels flattening us out, no room for big advantages and disadvantages to come into play, but the ratfucks outclassed my guys in literally every way.  We had no chance.  Dead leader and two critical injuries, and with no gold left cause no wyrdstone I didn't have much choice but to restart.

[nenjin]

Yeah, Skaven AI getting buffed HP to put them on par with other warbands basically removes their own notable downside. I rarely win an open street fight against Skaven...and I play them.

[Cthulhu]

What I'm really wondering is how the fuck ambush is supposed to work.  I sneak into a building when I know they're coming and set to ambush facing outward, so I'll charge them as they pass.  They walk up to the doorway, stop, go into ambush stance.  Now if I step out they'll ambush me.  And if I ambush in the open like they do, they charge and I don't get to ambush.

Edit:  Beat a skaven band.  Only cause we camped out in a square right by the wagon and ambushed them.  Even then we only barely won.  The assassin moved all the way down a bridge, around the square and into a building, killed my darksoul, then ran back out and engaged an archer.  We only got him because he failed the all alone.

[nenjin]

Buildings and alleys are the only way to keep the Skaven under control IMO. As for ambushing, yeah, it doesn't really work with tight corners and spaces. Better to just set your guys to dodge stance in position to block them coming in, or wait them out

[Majestic7]

I haven't played the game for a while, because honestly I lost interest after the devs fucked up single player for multiplayer. Basically, they are so concerned about people cheesing single player to develop bands for multiplayer, that they added all sort of artificial difficulty to counter it. Somehow that just seems paranoid, when they could have just made a separate single player only -campaign available instead. I suppose they got what they wanted though and purged the ranks of players mostly into single player. I must say I haven't seen an EA community as toxic as this one was yet. Perhaps it is the way niche games go when a small, rabid fan population want to stay special by keeping the player base small.

Yeah, I'm a little salty, mainly because I thought the game had a great potential when it was in EA and then the devs just kept going in a different direction. A shame, since the expansion potential was great regarding new factions etc, but now I'm just not interested.

[ZebioLizard2]

I mostly was curious as to why instead of fixing up the AI, they just constantly made it more and more difficult, that and some of the changes from the tabletop.. Like seriously, do even half the skills get purchased or used at all in the game, alongside half the magic which just seems so useless for most situations. Not to mention the homogenization of the factions.

[Majestic7]

Yeah well, that is what happens when multiplayer "balance" is more important than flavor and differences. Some mechanics of the tabletop were hard to convert into the game so instead they went a different route to keep things "balanced" for multiplayer. Balanced in this instance meaning most warbands eroding to similarity.

[Cthulhu]

As far as I could tell the tabletop Mordheim was also a flawed gem at best, wasn't it?  I can't remember what specifically, but I feel like ranged weapons and armor were both mostly useless, along with a bunch of other weird flaws.

[ZebioLizard2]

As far as I could tell the tabletop Mordheim was also a flawed gem at best, wasn't it?  I can't remember what specifically, but I feel like ranged weapons and armor were both mostly useless, along with a bunch of other weird flaws.

Armor was useless, ranged weapons were king in some cases. A Skaven warband could cheese the game by giving everyone slings.

[Majestic7]

Armor had a purpose - it was meant to be used against henchmen. Basically making it less likely for unlucky roll to make a noob henchman drop your important hero. Hero vs hero armor didn't usually matter much. But the battle system was very different from the digital adaptation, since you didn't get the death by thousand cuts the HP system results into.

[ndkid]

Armor had a purpose - it was meant to be used against henchmen. Basically making it less likely for unlucky roll to make a noob henchman drop your important hero. Hero vs hero armor didn't usually matter much. But the battle system was very different from the digital adaptation, since you didn't get the death by thousand cuts the HP system results into.

I had plenty of success, back in my tabletop Mordheim days, of trying to bottle my Dwarves up at high points and let them crossbow the enemy to death. I could believe that your average BS3 henchman in most armies, armed with a shortbow, isn't as helpful.

Yeah, the change from "every attack causes your life to flash before your eyes" to "every attack reduces your pool of health" changes something to fundamental to the game that I feel like the develops of the computer version really is IP-only... they tossed all of the mechanics in favor of something far more normal in the fantasy genre. (Granted, almost every use of GW IP in computer games has done that... watch as Dawn of War reduces all combat to RTS-standard DPS, meaning that the orc player will never have that glorious moment when he charges his gretchen at a line of Terminators and manages to get lucky and take the squad out.)
But, yeah, so much of what made Mordheim something I liked has been removed that I haven't managed to bring myself to give the computer version another try.

[nenjin]

Table Top Mordheim was indeed a flawed gem of a game.

In the same way the computer game is too. I'm just sad because I felt like they got 80% of the way there but swung and missed on the last 20% of balance and polish. I'd rather have had an eminently playable and enjoyable SP, over what amounts to constant frustration and feeling like you're out gunned. Better AI that was more playable would have been great; but it largely is just functional, direct and brutal instead.

Mordheim is still a game I can get into pretty easily once I start playing. It's just working up the will to play it that's the problem.

[Anvilfolk]

I kinda felt that the tactical choices weren't all that interesting. Like someone mentioned, ambushes wouldn't work as you'd expect, and more often than not it's just be a big pile of people hitting each other until someone comes out on top because they rolled better. Meh.

I loved the campaign layer though - those upgrades that you got, bit by bit, making each soldier feel stronger and stronger and stronger. Having to retire some because eventually they get wounded. I dunno, I just really enjoy that kind of strategic-level management.

[nenjin]

There are many viable tactical choices but they're all predicated on one thing: you have to be willing to lose guys. Every tactic against the AI that isn't preparing for the worst is a huge gamble. And the pay off just simply isn't worth losing a guy over. But if you're down with actually turning over warband members (I'm not), then sending out runners to grab wyrdstone, ambusher parties, stuff like that does work.

Some hands the game deals you can also frustrate, but, that's where tactics really shine. When you've got your guys spread to three corners of the map and one group is out gunned, that's where things start to get interesting. But also hugely risky. Going on the offensive against the AI is always just such a risk. You send two guys after one guy and find out he's got 3 friends right around the corner, who all hit the same guy when they enter combat and *splat*.

You can play safe against the AI and win but it's a little bit of drudgery if you're not a turtle type player as I am. For me the joy of Mordheim is the environment and its impact on tactical play, those times when you don't just shut your whole warband inside a house and murder the AI as it tries to get in. The warband management is ok although I still find the abilities super boring. "Builds" eventually make sense and start to shine but the game is way too stingy with benefits and cool stuff in the early game. Guys don't feel unique because they're points-built instead of randomly leveled like Mordheim Table Top. It's hard to get attached to them.

Still, I think the tension and difficulty of SP, the consequences of your actions, combined with the amazing maps and faithfulness to the source material, still makes Mordheim a game worth buying.

[Mephansteras]

Have there been any updates to this game? Any improvements?

It is on sale right now for $16, so I'm debating picking it up.