Topic: Sensible Armor (Read 1180 times)

Hetsin · « **on:** August 17, 2014, 12:31:25 pm »

This has probably been done before, but I couldn't find a similar mod -so I made my own. This shouldn't add armor, just tweaks stock ones - though I made a few things that might still be in these. I'm not sure if a custom reaction is needed to put them in dwarf mode, so I left them at the end - though they do work in arena.

Tired the cognitive dissonance of having dwarfs (or any other creature) being able to equip 3 mail shirts and a breastplate along with half a dozen cloaks just on the torso? Ever wonder how they managed to get stuff twice the material under leggings than the leggings occupy? Then this mod is for you.

Basically, it makes every item's permit size less than the layer size - making any clothing hold less than the amount it displaces. Also some item minor adjustments - moved some layers around, tweaked size on a handful of items, etc. Upshot being that basically you can generally wear only 1 UNDER, 1 OVER and 1 ARMOR, together or seperate.

COVER layer items are special. So while technically you could wear 7 capes - that's all you could wear on the torso. No real way around this, due to the way COVER mechanics work.

Comments/suggestions are welcome - this is my first mod, so I probably overlooked something. It worked in arena at the very least.

Armor

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Pants

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Shoes

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Gloves

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Helms

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Extras

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deepspaceprobe9 · « **Reply #1 on:** August 17, 2014, 04:02:03 pm »

I WAS kind of annoyed by that. Thank you.

HelloLion · « **Reply #2 on:** August 17, 2014, 09:12:52 pm »

This is awesome! Would you be cool with me adding it or a modified version to my mod (assuming I ever release it...)? Credit will of course be given.

Hetsin · « **Reply #3 on:** August 18, 2014, 08:50:36 am »

Sure thing, it's mostly a logical alteration anyway.

Button · « **Reply #4 on:** August 18, 2014, 02:26:51 pm »

Good work.

I don't want to put this in a mod exactly; but I keep my raws coordinated across computers via dffd, and other people download them sometimes. Is it OK if I bundle this in?

EDIT: By the way, I was under the impression that a mail hauberk could be worn over plate armor, but your raws define them as going under the breastplate. I can't find an answer on wikipedia and I don't have time for an authenticity google crawl; can anyone reading this tell me for sure?

Dirst · « **Reply #5 on:** August 18, 2014, 02:46:25 pm »

Quote from: Button on August 18, 2014, 02:26:51 pm

Good work.

I don't want to put this in a mod exactly; but I keep my raws coordinated across computers via dffd, and other people download them sometimes. Is it OK if I bundle this in?

EDIT: By the way, I was under the impression that a mail hauberk could be worn over plate armor, but your raws define them as going under the breastplate. I can't find an answer on wikipedia and I don't have time for an authenticity google crawl; can anyone reading this tell me for sure?

Not an expert, but a hauberk is a long shirt of mail that usually covers the crotch and at least part of the upper legs. I imagine it'd be difficult to tuck in like a shirt to keep inside a breastplate. That said, having chain bits inside plate armor was pretty common, I just don't think they were hauberks.

Putting a hauberk on the outside of plate armor seems really heavy and useless... it blunts edged attacks, but then again so does the plate under it. A (relatively) light chain shirt inside the breastplate is just as effective at filling gaps and it doesn't explode into a shower of rings when smashed against something rigid under it.

Button · « **Reply #6 on:** August 18, 2014, 03:10:09 pm »

Hahaha someone replied while I was doing my second edit. So! New reply! Since I'm going through the raws as I port them.

EDIT2: Speaking as someone who's worn skirts before, you're defining them really tight. Wearing a skirt with that little underneath it would scandalize my parents, let alone my grandparents.

A short skirt can have [LAYER_PERMIT:5], since you don't normally wear a slip underneath one; but a "regular" (calf-length?) skirt needs to have at least [LAYER_PERMIT:15], to fit underwear and a slip (short skirt). And long skirts can be pretty damn poofy: if it's possible to have lower-body [COVER]s, long skirts would probably be best as those; and in any case, a long skirt needs to be able to fit at least underwear, trousers, a medium skirt and another long skirt underneath it. So, [LAYER_PERMIT:40] at least, if not more.

Quote from: Dirst on August 18, 2014, 02:46:25 pm

Putting a hauberk on the outside of plate armor seems really heavy and useless... it blunts edged attacks, but then again so does the plate under it. A (relatively) light chain shirt inside the breastplate is just as effective at filling gaps and it doesn't explode into a shower of rings when smashed against something rigid under it.

True. Thanks for the answer

.

Hetsin · « **Reply #7 on:** August 19, 2014, 10:37:43 am »

I just defined them so you couldn't layer them ridiculously, even if you (or the dwarf) decided to forgo things like underwear and pants. In addition, the consideration has to be made that an item's SIZE is directly related to it's mass. For example, if the long skirt was changed to PERMIT 40, then the SIZE - to prevent wearing 2 long skirts - would have to be greater than 40. That's at least 4 times the mass of any of the other skirts. If, hypothetically it were made of chain metal, it would weigh more than 2, if not 3, times a chain legging made of the same material.

This is setup so someone can wear underwear, then pants, any type of skirt or leggings (armored or not) and finally greaves. The issue in my mind with making a long skirt COVER and PERMIT:40, would be that it could and would go over chain leggings and greaves or stack up to 4 times (with nothing else on). That last bit sort of negates the original focus of the edits. You are, of course, free to make whatever edits you wish as these are just modified stock raws.

I wish that COVER items had a special token to limit the amount that a specific item could be worn on a single creature and/or a special SHAPED-esqe token. I'm looking at you cloak and cape.

Button · « **Reply #8 on:** August 19, 2014, 11:48:49 am »

Quote from: Hetsin on August 19, 2014, 10:37:43 am

I just defined them so you couldn't layer them ridiculously, even if you (or the dwarf) decided to forgo things like underwear and pants. In addition, the consideration has to be made that an item's SIZE is directly related to it's mass. For example, if the long skirt was changed to PERMIT 40, then the SIZE - to prevent wearing 2 long skirts - would have to be greater than 40.

But... my point is that you should be able to wear 2 long skirts. Or more! Layering skirts is what you do with them, and taking it to silly extremes was actually in fashion in the 2000's. Not to mention old-fashioned petticoats, or Armok forbid even-older-fashioned hoop skirts.

I actually had a long skirt in middle school which was two long skirts sewn together at the waist, and was intended to be worn with both underwear and a slip underneath. That's 1 loincloth, 1 regular skirt, and 2 long skirts, and it didn't look weird at all. I could easily have thrown another couple skirts on top of it.

If you'd rather focus on keeping numbers of items down, that's fine, but from a how-they're-actually-worn-in-real-life standpoint, wearing 2 skirts (1 slip, 1 outer skirt) on top of underwear is considered the bare minimum of decency for people who care about that sort of thing.

tl;dr I think you should be able to wear a long skirt over greaves and leggings. They've got plenty of room.

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Author Topic: Sensible Armor (Read 1180 times)

Hetsin

Sensible Armor

deepspaceprobe9

Re: Sensible Armor

HelloLion

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Hetsin

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Button

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Dirst

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Button

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Hetsin

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Button

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