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Author Topic: Getting lost quickly  (Read 766 times)

ragincajun

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Getting lost quickly
« on: August 16, 2014, 11:35:21 am »

As I've noted in a few of my question threads I'm just returning to DF after a hiatus of a while.

The last time I played I used the YouTube Newbie guide videos to get me started but it appears there are no current updated tutorials.  Anyone have any direction to one for the new version?

Also, I have gotten three migrations so up to about 17 dwarfs and then a slew of children.  It's about this time that I get overwhelmed (lol) and don't know which direction to go.  This seems to be the same sticking point for me in prior versions that I've played...I've got queues up in workshops but nobody in them.  Everyone is working on some project (nobody with No Job) but workshops are idle, I am running out of seeds, food, alcohol and now water (must be new as I hadn't seen that before.

I've got a still and kitchen.  I've run several batches in the still but then I'm running out of seeds for planting.  I have two full time farmers with only food gathering and farming turned on and "Only Farmers Harvest" to get the max return (assume this still works like that).  I have four plots below ground (all 3x3) and two 3x3 above ground.  I have seed storage immediately adjacent to the farming area.  I've turned cook off for all my seeds (to red) in the kitchen.  So not sure how I'm running out of food and then have no food for brewing.  Farming and digging is the first thing I set up.

Really need some help in getting through this "start up" hump as I've never progressed much beyond this spot ever before dying becomes involved and then abandoning the site.  What's bad is I never get very far even after a dozen world generations and then a new version adds new stuff I have to deal with when I can't even deal with the basics..lol.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2014, 11:36:52 am by ragincajun »
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banita

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Re: Getting lost quickly
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2014, 11:46:18 am »

Using plants for cooking doesn't leave seeds, maybe that's the problem. So you have to disable plants too :)
Personally, I'm using 5x5 grid for farms. It works like a charm.
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ragincajun

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Re: Getting lost quickly
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2014, 11:49:39 am »

As noted, cook is turned off for all seeds so as not to consume them.  So I don't know where my seeds are going.  I brought over 100 with me from the start.  Plots are also rotated seasonally.
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greycat

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Re: Getting lost quickly
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2014, 02:16:46 pm »

Also, I have gotten three migrations so up to about 17 dwarfs and then a slew of children.  It's about this time that I get overwhelmed (lol) and don't know which direction to go.

Just keep things simple.  You should have small areas dedicated to the essentials of Dwarven life in the first year, but with room to expand them as more dwarves arrive.

1) Food and booze.  Have some small underground farms in your soil layers (I use 2x2 plots, and I start with 4 of them planted, but with another 4 plots sitting fallow).  Put the seed stockpile (a food stockpile that disables everything but seeds) with NO barrels allowed right by the farms.  Make a plant stockpile close by, for the harvested crops to go to.  Use that as the center for your plant-based industries (brewable plants go to the still, pig tails go to the farmer's workshop -> loom -> clothier's shop, and quarry bushes go to the farmer's workshop -> kitchen).

Note: quarry bushes have two bugs in the current release (0.40.08).  There are workaround instructions in Bug #7032.  You could also just skip quarry bushes, but that means you'll need additional farm plot space for food.

2) Security.  Have a way to seal yourself in, for when the zombies (or goblins, or whatever) arrive.  A raising bridge that blocks the sole entry is the most common way.  You can devise more elaborate/devious designs later, when you have the time.  Have a few military dwarves training, and add more as you get migrants that you don't need for civilian duties.

3) Water.  For medical use only.  Ideally you can locate an infinite water source (brook, river, aquifer, or cavern lake that touches the map edge), and divert some of that to a private underground cistern, with wells over it.  Having the cistern underground prevents it from freezing.  This is a one-time setup per fortress, typically.  Once you have this, you shouldn't ever need to expand it.

4) Bedrooms, dining rooms.  This is about happiness management, which is important in the long term.  In the initial months, you can get by with a communal dormitory, and let dwarves eat food straight out of the stockpile.  Later, you may want to build individual bedrooms.  Building a nice dining room gives a happy thought every time Dwarves eat there.  It really doesn't take much to impress them, either.  Half a dozen good quality stone tables and chairs in a single 8x8 (or so) room will do.

5) Clothing.  This becomes critical after 2 years, when the first batch of clothing your Dwarves arrived in starts to wear out.  Expand your pig tail farm plots to meet the demand, or add some above-ground textile plants (rope reed, cotton, hemp) if you can get them, and if your biome can grow them.  Remember that pig tails only grow for half the year (summer and fall).  You can also use leather for clothing, but locally sourced leather is really difficult to get in bulk.  If you can get the Dwarven caravan to arrive regularly (no sieges preventing them), you can get lots of leather that way, but pig tail plots are the most reliable source of clothing.

Above all, don't panic.  You get 30 more migrants, no biggie.  Just carve out 30 more rooms, chop a few trees, build 30 more beds, and voila.  Maybe add another 2x2 farm plot to support their drinking habits and slaughter a boar.  You should always have enough extra food and booze to hold you until the new crops grow.  The new migrants' clothing should be OK for 2 years, so you have time there.  They should arrive "content", so the lack of a bedroom isn't going to send them into a deep depression right away.

As noted, cook is turned off for all seeds so as not to consume them.  So I don't know where my seeds are going.  I brought over 100 with me from the start.  Plots are also rotated seasonally.

Which plants?  This is important, because quarry bushes are broken (but fixable), and many of the above-ground plants simply don't work at all (also theoretically fixable, but the modding required would be more extensive -- basically implementing them yourself as brand new plants).

Remember, you don't get the seeds back until the mature plants are processed or eaten.  If all your plump helmet spawn are planted, grow into plump helmets, and sit in a stockpile somewhere, then you won't have any seeds left.  When a dwarf brews one, or eats one, then you get the seeds.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2014, 02:23:04 pm by greycat »
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dexxy

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Re: Getting lost quickly
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2014, 04:07:18 pm »

As noted, cook is turned off for all seeds so as not to consume them.  So I don't know where my seeds are going.  I brought over 100 with me from the start.  Plots are also rotated seasonally.

Turn off cooking for the food, then they can't cook plump helmets for example. They won't starve, because they can eat them raw. Which gives you seeds. Or they can brew them, which gives you seeds. Just don't let them cook them, or you don't get seeds.

Later on  you will have hundreds of seeds, then you let them cook plump helmets again.

Meanwhile, put a Meat and fish and eggs and cheese custom food stockpile right next to your kitchen. Get your butcher to kill a bunch of animals, and your dwarfs will have masterful tallow roasts to eat very soon.
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celem

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Re: Getting lost quickly
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2014, 10:16:25 pm »

You always hit that hump.  Your fort is ready for more than its current population and they are not enough to run it.  Muddle through to the caravan and the spring beyond, If you traded well you will have no dwarfpower problems
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wlmartin

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Re: Getting lost quickly
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2014, 05:34:42 am »

As I've noted in a few of my question threads I'm just returning to DF after a hiatus of a while.

The last time I played I used the YouTube Newbie guide videos to get me started but it appears there are no current updated tutorials.  Anyone have any direction to one for the new version?

Also, I have gotten three migrations so up to about 17 dwarfs and then a slew of children.  It's about this time that I get overwhelmed (lol) and don't know which direction to go.  This seems to be the same sticking point for me in prior versions that I've played...I've got queues up in workshops but nobody in them.  Everyone is working on some project (nobody with No Job) but workshops are idle, I am running out of seeds, food, alcohol and now water (must be new as I hadn't seen that before.

If you have this problem then consider trying to grow alcohol only plants and eating meat/fish (and not plants)
That way you can never run out by having one eat the other.

I've got a still and kitchen.  I've run several batches in the still but then I'm running out of seeds for planting.  I have two full time farmers with only food gathering and farming turned on and "Only Farmers Harvest" to get the max return (assume this still works like that).  I have four plots below ground (all 3x3) and two 3x3 above ground.  I have seed storage immediately adjacent to the farming area.  I've turned cook off for all my seeds (to red) in the kitchen.  So not sure how I'm running out of food and then have no food for brewing.  Farming and digging is the first thing I set up.

Try tweaking the kitchen more and figure out what you can brew and what you can cook. Look at the stock levels and judge accordingly. This management can be hard. If i dont want to manage this so much, I just make plump helmet my only food source and then keep balancing food and drink stock. I never brew/cook unless there is a need... I can't trust my cooks!! - So if my food stocks are low but my drinks are high,l I will turn on cooking only and vice versa for drinks.

I think that if you can manage the kitchen section and try to cook things you have lots of stock of, brew things you have lots of stock of and try not to cross over.


Really need some help in getting through this "start up" hump as I've never progressed much beyond this spot ever before dying becomes involved and then abandoning the site.  What's bad is I never get very far even after a dozen world generations and then a new version adds new stuff I have to deal with when I can't even deal with the basics..lol.

Try this from embark

(strip down on equipment you dont need, throw this into the following food stuffs)
Plump helmet seeds
Plump helmets
Meat/Fish

Cook the meat, brew the helmets.

Adjust the quantity of food according to your plans and the migrants you will be catering for (but have them gather to pay their way if you want)

The end result should be that your plump helmet count should rise quite a lot in your first year and when you have a good balance you can begin eating/cooking the helmets and expanding



If you feel you don't have enough money to spend on food, go lighter with skills or remove equipment.
I sometimes go with just picks, ale and food (and seeds) as the rest I can build myself.


Oh, and when caravans come - make sure you have something to trade and buy LOTS of food (meat and cheese is good) especially the cheap stuff. If you do it right you can get your fish/meat count up high and keep focusing on eating meat and cooking plants
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greycat

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Re: Getting lost quickly
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2014, 03:52:39 pm »

Try tweaking the kitchen more and figure out what you can brew and what you can cook. Look at the stock levels and judge accordingly. This management can be hard. If i dont want to manage this so much, I just make plump helmet my only food source and then keep balancing food and drink stock. I never brew/cook unless there is a need... I can't trust my cooks!! - So if my food stocks are low but my drinks are high,l I will turn on cooking only and vice versa for drinks.

I never have any issues of this kind, because I configure the z -> Kitchen menu to avoid cooking my booze and plants (and seeds, but those are turned off by default).  I also disable milk cooking, to force my Dwarves to make cheese first, but that's just my preference.  Cheesemaking only adds value to the meals (and helps alleviate the old "can't cook this liquid because of some crazy barrel shit" bug; it doesn't actually increase the amount of food available).

Basically, I set up the kitchen menu so that the only things they're allowed to cook are what I want them to cook.  Then, any time I order "Prepare lavish meals, on repeat" I can trust that they won't cook all the rum and leave everyone dying of thirst.

I embark with one maxed-skill planter (5 points at embark), and I start with four 2x2 farm plots in the soil layer as soon as I can get them dug out.  My farming & plant storage area looks like this:

Code: [Select]
#######
#..5..#
#.SSS.#####             S : Still
#.SSS.....#             1 : Plant stockpile, no barrels, take from anywhere
#.SSS.#...##########    2 : Plant stockpile, no barrels, take from links only
#..4..#...#~~==~~==#    3 : Seed stockpile, no barrels
####.##...#~~==~~==#    4 : Plant stockpile, no barrels, take from links only,
 #11.......33333333#        take from stockpile #2, give to Still
 #11M2.....33333333#    5 : Barrel/pot stockpile, give to Still
 #11.......33333333#
 ######...#~~==~~==#    M : Track stop (dump east), with hauling route and
      #...#~~==~~==#        minecart, taking from #1, dumping to #2
      #...##########    ==~~ : farm plots

I didn't show the full size of stockpiles #4 and #5, just for aesthetics.  In reality they surround the still, usually 3x5 for the plants and 2x5 for the barrels.  I'm also not showing the kitchen, farmer's workshops, loom, clothier's shop, etc.  They're south of here.  Every workshop that processes plants has a feeder stockpile that disallows barrels and takes from stockpile #2 (links only).  That single tile stockpile #2 is my main storage for ALL plants.  Armok be praised.

There are 8 2x2 plots all dug out and built, but I only plant 4 of them to start.  The first is plump helmets every season.  The second is sweet pods in spring, cave wheat in summer/fall, and plump helmets in winter.  The third is quarry bushes in spring/summer/fall and plump helmets in winter.  The fourth is sweet pods in spring, pig tails in summer/fall, and plump helmets in winter.

Those four plots will keep my food/booze very full for a very long time (easily handling 50 dwarves).  I generally have to expand the pig tails by the second year.  If I have a huge population, I'll expand the quarry bushes next because I'm likely to have so many plump helmets I don't know what to do with them all, so no booze issues.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2014, 04:00:22 pm by greycat »
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Hell, if nobody's suffocated because of it, it hardly counts as a bug! -- StLeibowitz