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Author Topic: Reactive or Proactive gameplay?  (Read 1446 times)

wlmartin

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Reactive or Proactive gameplay?
« on: August 15, 2014, 09:16:57 am »

How reactive or proactive do you find you play?

What I mean by reactive and proactive is :

Proactive : You set a goal out from embark (a certain economy etc) and if migrating dwarves meet your skill-set, they go to work, otherwise you consider the rest as apprentices who are pushed into the job roles they arent really skilled for but fit with your design

Reactive : You may have a goal, you may not but when your dwarves come along and you find a GM beekeeper or Cheesemaker, you immediately find a way to fill their role building infrastructure around them. You spend a good 5 minutes scouting the map for any usuable hives, pull your crafters off other jobs to make hives and then begin working a beekeeping strategy up... or if he is a brilliant cheesemaker, you setup a plan to have him milk and make cheese from any cattle you have and if you dont have any this becomes a priority at the next trade


I flit between both and wondered how others approach their games
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BuGGaTon

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Re: Reactive or Proactive gameplay?
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2014, 10:21:43 am »

Any dwarf that arrives who doesn't have a useful labour at a higher skill level than another dwarf becomes a miner until I have 7 in total.  Anyone else becomes a marksdwarf and joins the expeditionary force.  They're given a crossbow, quiver and some bolts and they're told to go shoot bone bolts at anything on the map that moves until they're grand masters at which point they're given regular combat training to improve discipline and armour/shield user stats.  Any dwarf that arrives with a military skill joins that specific squad and is given a full set of the best goblinite or what have you and are set to train/patrol.  Any dwarf that arrives as the best in their field of a useful labour becomes the sole worker in that trade.  Their contemporaries, if they've no more skills to offer, become marksdwarves.

Every dwarf is assigned as an architect, carpenter and mason.  Carpentry and Mason workshops require profiling.

With this set up I find it easy to defend myself whilst building whatever mega project I like and usually it's my own stupidity that causes me to lose from there on out.
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Dwimenor

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Re: Reactive or Proactive gameplay?
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2014, 10:24:06 am »

Proactive.
I usually have some kind of goto goal for new fortress, ranging from something simple (how beekeeping works? How minecarts work?) to complex megaprojects.
Migrants that don't have useful skills go either into early stage military (you can imagine survivability rate) or to my "peon" custom prof (hauling, masonery, farming, plant gathering, smelting, tree cutting and everything else that doesn't benefit from high-skill level).
 
This can change during gameplay, because of fulfilling previous goal or !!FUN!!
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 11:23:09 am by Dwimenor »
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BuGGaTon

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Re: Reactive or Proactive gameplay?
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2014, 10:30:44 am »

or to my "peon" custom prof (hauling, masonery, farming, plant gathering, smelting, tree cutting and everything else that doesn't benefit from high-skill level).

Yield increases and speed are significant leading to only needing one high level plant gatherer or grower to feed and water an entire fortress, also leading to much larger prepared food stacks (from syrup and bushes made at the threshers) and booze stacks.  Not that they're totally awful at low level but having one person who is very good at growing is high priority in my embark.
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wlmartin

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Re: Reactive or Proactive gameplay?
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2014, 10:54:18 am »

Any dwarf that arrives who doesn't have a useful labour at a higher skill level than another dwarf becomes a miner until I have 7 in total.  Anyone else becomes a marksdwarf and joins the expeditionary force.  They're given a crossbow, quiver and some bolts and they're told to go shoot bone bolts at anything on the map that moves until they're grand masters at which point they're given regular combat training to improve discipline and armour/shield user stats.  Any dwarf that arrives with a military skill joins that specific squad and is given a full set of the best goblinite or what have you and are set to train/patrol.  Any dwarf that arrives as the best in their field of a useful labour becomes the sole worker in that trade.  Their contemporaries, if they've no more skills to offer, become marksdwarves.

Every dwarf is assigned as an architect, carpenter and mason.  Carpentry and Mason workshops require profiling.

With this set up I find it easy to defend myself whilst building whatever mega project I like and usually it's my own stupidity that causes me to lose from there on out.
I like it

Its a plan, you see the dorfs as resources, clay to be moulded.

I don't mind this approach at all... I just dislike the following scenario

(Entrance to my Fortress)
Urist McBooksmarts : So, Dwarf #34512, what can you do then?
Urist McBeemaster : (dressed in white netted Beekeeping clothing) um... Well if you have any Bee's, i'll manage them and manufacturer a buttload of honey
Urist McBooksmarts : Nope, bees aren't important.. we have a current business driver to make lots of dwarfbucks and currently the initiative responsible for that centres around making golden goblets. You obviously aren't skilled at metalsmithing but you have arms, so off to the woodburning pits you go

... a few weeks later
Urist McBeemaster : Boss, I am getting a bit sick of this woodburning, my clothes are covered in soot and I have started coughing funny
Urist McBossMan : Dwarf #34512 is it? - Well, my sheet tells me that is what job you are assigned and there has to be a reason for that, what else can you do?
Urist McBeemaster : Well [ enter long explanation of what a beekeeper does ] so how about it? I have even taken some time in my off-hours to scout out some local hives. I reckon that within a year or two, I could have a full-fledged colony of bees amongst many different hives and the monetary benefit to the fortress would be immense
Urist McBossMan : OK, I'll give you the opportunity but don't mess it up

... just as McBeemaster is leaving

Urist McBossMan : Oh, 34512... we still need that charcoal so just squeeze that Bee thing of yours on your break from the furnace, ok?

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Dwimenor

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Re: Reactive or Proactive gameplay?
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2014, 12:07:44 pm »

Yield increases and speed are significant leading to only needing one high level plant gatherer or grower to feed and water an entire fortress, also leading to much larger prepared food stacks (from syrup and bushes made at the threshers) and booze stacks.  Not that they're totally awful at low level but having one person who is very good at growing is high priority in my embark.
I know about that and my embark team usually have 2 proficient growers. But it's somewhat in my mindset:
1. All dwarves harvest, all dwarves plant seeds.
2. Have a lot of individual farm plots (1x1 - 2x2 - 3x3) for many different crops.
3. Produce wide range of different drinks, but in small quantities. I try to keep every drink at around 50 units.
4. In long run around 50% of total population have farming enabled. Kids, military and important dwarves (medical, military, bookkeeper, manager, don't do that stuff.
5. This makes planting seeds faster during season change. 30+ dwarves do it much faster then 2, no matter skill difference. Even if I have best designed seed stockpiles, hauling every single seed adds a lot to total planting time.
6. 30+ planters do the job simultaneously. When harvest time comes, most plants are ready withing 1-2 days. This reduces hauling time for gathering crops. If there are a lot of plants, peon will come with barrel and take a lot of plants at once. If harvest period is longer (weeks) the same job (take barrel from plants stockpile, come to field, take one plant, haul barrel back to plant stockpile, hey-look! there is new plant on the field) have to be repeated many times. Not to manition, that plant will wither if not gathered soon enough. You can really get unlucky, if you legendary farmer hit get booze->break->sleep->eat->attend party combo.

Maybe it's not the best farming design, but I kinda like it. in 34.11 I played with seasonal crops mod, which required a lot farming space (2-3 farming plot squares per dwarf, and sometimes I still had to import plants or booze). In vanilia legendary farmer can feed entire fortress using 3x3 plump helmet farm.


Anyway, one of my megaprojects was "all dwarves legendary", where my goal was to make sure that every single dwarf will be legendary with their best migration skill. It failed on medical skills and some bugged ones (animal care, glazing) but at the same time 50 war grizzly bears were pretty awesome. To free animal hard-cap I periodically sent them to clear caverns from Forgotten Beasts.
You can count it as "proactive-reactive" design.
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Absentia

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Re: Reactive or Proactive gameplay?
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2014, 01:10:20 pm »

Hmm, I normally start with a goal of something new I want to try, and then it either doesn't work or turns out to be too much trouble (or it's bugged), so I just roll with whatever is going on.

Once I have all the needed roles filled and 20-ish miscellaneous laborers, useless beekeeper-type migrants are either drafted or take a magma bath. Keeps FPS high, plus all those memorial slabs keep the engravers busy when they're done with the bedrooms.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 01:12:54 pm by Absentia »
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Chevaleresse

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Re: Reactive or Proactive gameplay?
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2014, 01:46:56 pm »

Proactive, except when it comes to a military. I tend toward making the fort impenetrable and self-sufficient via drawbridge and "aboveground" farm plots, so I tend to get migrant waves of "craftsmen" and "metalsmiths" that are Great in combat skills.
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greycat

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Re: Reactive or Proactive gameplay?
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2014, 02:32:36 pm »

1. All dwarves harvest, all dwarves plant seeds.
2. Have a lot of individual farm plots (1x1 - 2x2 - 3x3) for many different crops.
3. Produce wide range of different drinks, but in small quantities. I try to keep every drink at around 50 units.
4. In long run around 50% of total population have farming enabled. Kids, military and important dwarves (medical, military, bookkeeper, manager, don't do that stuff.
5. This makes planting seeds faster during season change. 30+ dwarves do it much faster then 2, no matter skill difference. Even if I have best designed seed stockpiles, hauling every single seed adds a lot to total planting time.
6. 30+ planters do the job simultaneously. When harvest time comes, most plants are ready withing 1-2 days. This reduces hauling time for gathering crops. If there are a lot of plants, peon will come with barrel and take a lot of plants at once. If harvest period is longer (weeks) the same job (take barrel from plants stockpile, come to field, take one plant, haul barrel back to plant stockpile, hey-look! there is new plant on the field) have to be repeated many times. Not to manition, that plant will wither if not gathered soon enough.

So, your entire farming industry design is built around the inefficiency of the default plant stockpile.  I'd like to introduce you to my friend, Mr. Quantum Stockpile.
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Ornstein

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Re: Reactive or Proactive gameplay?
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2014, 02:37:51 pm »

Proactive.

Operating under the assumption that every migrant will belong to the McPotashmaker clan, all migrants are immediately drafted into the military and assigned to be mason engineer architects
. Any migrant who actually has a useful skill is not. Cheap leather armor as soon as possible for the recruits, often kitten leather with cat bone cross bows. Any with some martial inclinations are sent to train via danger room or sparring as melee soldiers.

Probe for caverns by the second spring and attempt to recenter the fortress below the first cavern. Make as much glass goods as possible to use in the first project, the inevitable invader nullification system. Nothing special about glass other than I want everyone who approaches my fortess to have to traverse a field of broken glass.

Hunters and animal trainers get a pass since catching the most exotic and belligerent of the local wildlife for weaponization is a high priority. Hoping to be able to start my own GCS ranch.
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Dwimenor

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Re: Reactive or Proactive gameplay?
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2014, 03:51:09 pm »

So, your entire farming industry design is built around the inefficiency of the default plant stockpile.  I'd like to introduce you to my friend, Mr. Quantum Stockpile.
Oh please, this game is easy enough* without using exploits;)

*Once you memorize wiki
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Merendel

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Re: Reactive or Proactive gameplay?
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2014, 04:51:12 pm »

Slightly aimless proactive.  Every dwarf, unless they are particularly skilled at something useful like weapon/armorsmith, gets assigned to my Hauler profession on arrival.  Any time I need a new specalist dwarf I check the haulers to see if any suitable canidits exist that have that skill, if not I draft some random dwarf for it.  If I have more haulers than I need at any given time I start organizing the extras into reservest squads for training.  Haulers with useful combat skills and or good stats for combat often get recruited first for the primary military for dedicated training.

That said beyond the basics for survival I dont frequently go into any embark with a significant plan.   I just get things up and runing and then do whatever strikes my fancy and seems like a good idea based on local resorces/conditions.  some people have 10 or 100 year plans.  Me? my dwarves are lucky if my plan extends beyond 10 minutes most of the time.  My forts often end up self sufficent messes of half finished projects.  the finished projects will sometimes have 2 or more distint designs smashed togeather into something workable as they were finished years appart.
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Levi

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Re: Reactive or Proactive gameplay?
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2014, 05:23:25 pm »

Proactive.  I rarely start a game without a goal.

For migrants I generally give them all a "Peon" role, and then assign them specific tasks(or roles) as I need them.
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Bumber

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Re: Reactive or Proactive gameplay?
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2014, 05:25:32 pm »

So, your entire farming industry design is built around the inefficiency of the default plant stockpile.  I'd like to introduce you to my friend, Mr. Quantum Stockpile.
Oh please, this game is easy enough* without using exploits;)

*Once you memorize wiki
The alternative to QSPs for efficient hauling is to have a barrel-less feeder stockpile giving to a 'Take from links only' food barrel stockpile.
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Melting Sky

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Re: Reactive or Proactive gameplay?
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2014, 09:20:57 pm »

I do a mix of both. I generally have some sort of plan for an embark and what I want to do with it but adapt on the fly to what is thrown at me as well. I generally aim for the fort to self sufficient in all areas necissary for a good balanced fort and if a good bee keeper or cheesemaker etc. shows up there is a good chance I will set them up some hives or a diary industry just so their talents aren't wasted.



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