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[Rolan7]

I never thought of using seduction with guitars.  I've avoided using seduction on conservatives because of that annoying "They were informing!  Your 20 stealth 20 dodge infiltrator is now magically in prison gg no re".  I prefer to use persuasion to get conservative sleepers, though I think the odds of success are a lot lower.

I think most people use seduction in combination with "enlightenment", which is safe, but I personally hate to do that except to the CCS or conservative nightmare drones like deathsquads.  I make exceptions, but it feels appropriately icky.

On a mostly unrelated note, I wanted to share this image.  My infiltrator is trying to turn herself in at the police station, and I couldn't resist the "drop pickup line naked" option.




ANGEL: O_o

[Liberal Elitist]

Wow Rolan7 those images are pretty funny. Police Negotiators are unique in that they appear to be moderate but actually they are treated as an enemy and oftentimes act like Conservatives such as in combat/site mode/chases/etc. At first I thought maybe what was happening in those screenshots was buggy but then I realized no, that's what's supposed to happen... my mistake was not spotting the 2nd Police Negotiator. You pick up the 1st one on a date, then you stare at the Conservatives, then they get alarmed (they were already suspicious), and the 2nd Police Negotiator, treated as an enemy by the game, expresses this alarm, all working the way the game is supposed to work. Still pretty funny though.

[Rolan7]

Yep!  Sorry, didn't mean to trigger your debugging sense - this was one of those DF-like situations where the log makes the situation seem more ridiculous than it is.

Though I really wasn't expecting naked seduction to work, she "only" had about 6 points I think.  Can't check now, accidentally liberalized the country (forgot I was using the newish easier win condition).  Kinda a relief, as my combat squad had just gotten wiped out by the CCS while unarmed in a safehouse, after getting out of prison.  Never quit the game while waiting for a CCS raid, or you might forget when you resume...

[Purple Gorilla]

An easy way to nerf seduction and make the game more realistic is, only permitting (succesful) seduction, if both have a different sex. The game currently treats everybody as homosexual, that isn't only extreme unrealistic, it also should get you arrested if homosexuality is at C+.

Imagine, a male fashion designer drops a pickup line to a male death squad officer when homosexuality,police beahaviour and death penalty are all at C+. What could possibly go wrong ...

I always assumed this were true, considring homosexuality is one of the issues you can influence, but neither TALK.CPP nor DATE.CPP check for sex.

This could even be more elaborated, by giving some persons a homosexual flag - a very small percentage, to be realistic - and allow to blackmail homosexual conservatives if homosexuality is at C/C++. This would also balance the game, in a similar way than gun control, as it makes the game more difficult if laws are liberal.

If a transvestite (liberal gender femal,actual gender male) tries to seduce a man, there should also be chance, that he is killed by his enraged date. This often happens to tranvestites in real life.

[Lielac]

An easy way to nerf seduction and make the game more realistic is, only permitting (succesful) seduction, if both have a different sex. The game currently treats everybody as homosexual, that isn't only extreme unrealistic, it also should get you arrested if homosexuality is at C+.

Imagine, a male fashion designer drops a pickup line to a male death squad officer when homosexuality,police beahaviour and death penalty are all at C+. What could possibly go wrong ...

I always assumed this were true, considring homosexuality is one of the issues you can influence, but neither TALK.CPP nor DATE.CPP check for sex.

This could even be more elaborated, by giving some persons a homosexual flag - a very small percentage, to be realistic - and allow to blackmail homosexual conservatives if homosexuality is at C/C++. This would also balance the game, in a similar way than gun control, as it makes the game more difficult if laws are liberal.

If a transvestite (liberal gender femal,actual gender male) tries to seduce a man, there should also be chance, that he is killed by his enraged date. This often happens to tranvestites in real life.

...

...

...

1. Actually, everyone is treated as bisexual, as they can pick up and be picked up by people of any gender. Get your terminology sorted.
2. You're spouting laughably homophobic bullshit.
3. And transphobic bullshit.
4. And basically you sound like an ignorant douchecanoe and I kind of pity you because you're so clearly wrong.
5. I'm not going to respond further than this, because you're pretty clearly a lost cause. Have fun with your backwards views!

[Rolan7]

Yeah I pretty much saw that response coming.  Purple Gorilla's post is suggestions for a video game, not "transphobic bullshit".  There are no attacks against actual LGBT people in there, so the predictable flaming was unwarranted.

The suggestions are sadly realistic, maybe too much so for the game.  Though it IS weird that everyone, even conservatives, are bi.  A pair of flags for gender preference would make sense.  As for trans people, bouncers at the club already see physical sex instead of gender I think.  Maybe the disguise skill should help with that, if it doesn't already.

The chance of getting killed is too much though.  It's already silly that people get insta-arrested on dates, insta-death is too much (from a game mechanic perspective).

To keep things in the over-the-top spirit of LCS, I think it'd be fine for everyone to be "a little bi".  It would still be criminal and dangerous to hit on same-sex conservatives, but with high seduction you could overcome their prejudices.  Heck, look at how many high-profile conservatives turn out to be secretly gay...  It's almost like constantly condemning something doesn't make it go away (or makes it more intriguing, even).

The neat thing about a two-flag system is that the conservative CEO could be secretly gay, and thus mysteriously immune to seduction by the female members.

[SuicideJunkie]

It would be fairly simple to bump the seduction difficulty up (harder, but not impossible) based on a hidden flag and (a.gender == tk.gender) xor (tk.flag).

Also, consider if there were to be a crime similar in mechanics to flag murder (only applies when laws are highly conservative), and then the conservatives raise alarm if they see you committing the crime.
Thus it would naturally fall out that when trying to seduce the death squad officer, if you fail the attempt (and/or there are conservative witnesses remaining), you will get shot at.

[Purple Gorilla]

1. Actually, everyone is treated as bisexual, as they can pick up and be picked up by people of any gender. Get your terminology sorted.
2. You're spouting laughably homophobic bullshit.
3. And transphobic bullshit.
4. And basically you sound like an ignorant douchecanoe and I kind of pity you because you're so clearly wrong.
5. I'm not going to respond further than this, because you're pretty clearly a lost cause. Have fun with your backwards views!

OK, Lielac, I am not sure if that was sarcasm/trolling, but I will treat it as serious:
1. I really mixed up homo- and bi- sexuality, sorry if that offended someone.
2. Calm down please, this is just a game. Why are you Americans so freaked out if someone mentions that topic ? I saw the same reaction as someone introduced a transvestite patch to NetHack, but your reaction is egregious. And considering the whole violence in LCS,Nethack and almost every videogame, that topic really should not cross the line. Especially considering LCS deals with the very topic of politics.
3. Why am I homophobic and backward ? If someone is homophobic or backward, then the (fictional) conservatives in the game, but not me. Again this is just a game.
4. Most people in real-life are not homo- or bi- sexual. Maybe many people tolerate homosexuality, but this is not the same than beeing it.
5. Many people in real life do react aggravated on homsexual seduction attempts, even if they otherwise support gay rights.
6. Homicide of transsexuals does happen in real life. This does neither mean that its good, nor that I support it, this just means, that it does happen.

[SlatersQuest]

Purple Gorilla, while your Conservative arguments are correct in the context of a backwards Conservative viewpoint, it is also clear that you are not sufficiently Liberal.

Leilac, while it is clear that Purple Gorilla will need further enlightenment before xe may be considered a true Elite Liberal, I ask you to remember that executing a prisoner, even a Conservative automaton, will cause you and your contact(s) to lose Juice, so don't do it. Remember, we are the Liberal Crime Squad, not the Stalinist Comrade Squad (not yet, anyway).

:p



More seriously, yes, the game treats everybody as essentially bisexual, with one exception, this being that if your founder has a sleeper lawyer, this sleeper will automatically be of the opposite sex as your founder unless you choose the "gay" option earlier in your choices, in which case xe will automatically be of the same sex of your founder. Any Liberal can seduce anybody of either sex, though (although, for the moment, only Liberals are capable of seduction at all).

This is, indeed, unrealistic, but keep in mind that in the world of Liberal Crime Squad, what you see in (liberal) political cartoons is reality. Real American conservatives don't generally support censorship of free speech, and while they may support the use of the death penalty for serious offenses, they don't extend that to minor crimes, etc. And, in the real world, terrorism in the United States has generally been shown by history to be ineffective at getting the public to support the terrorists (in fact, the opposite happens more often), whereas in Liberal Crime Squad, it is quite effective. It's not supposed to be realistic.

[Devastator]

You're mostly right Slater, LCS is intended to be fun, not realistic.  What's missing is that the situation with everyone being bisexual is more fun, as it means you don't need to wait longer to hit the random chance of hitting on someone of the correct gender.  It also allows for pick-up lines to be used pre-combat more often, which I think everyone agrees is hilarious.

There is no need for a gender and sexuality arguments, though.  After all, there's nothing wrong with a man, even if he is a woman.  ;-)

[FinetalPies]

I love video games and I find any argument to defend bigoted speech containing "It's just a game" especially infuriating. Just a heads up.

[nephilimnexus]

Very simple.  On average, 90% of the human population is straight and 10% is gay.  So for every character introduced, roll some dice and get their orientation.

A slightly more complicated, but more realistic, system would be to use the sliding scale system (look it up) and add/subtract modifiers based on that.  For example, someone who scores a perfect 5 on the "straight/gay" scale would be pure bisexual and get no modifiers either way.  Someone who scored a 2 would be almost completely straight, so attempts at homosexual seduction would receive a massive penalty.  Only a perfect 1 or 10 would absolutely lock out seduction attempts from the wrong gender.

[Neonivek]

Very simple.  On average, 90% of the human population is straight and 10% is gay.

Less than 3.8% to be exact

[FinetalPies]

Hetero and homo are not the only sexualities. It sounds like it might be interesting to even introduce asexual people who can't be seduced by anyone. But it doesn't really sound fun.

Also the 1/10 people are gay statistic is severely outdated. And the linear sliding scale of sexuality is also severely outdated. As seen by my result here

[jhxmt]

I love video games and I find any argument to defend bigoted speech containing "It's just a game" especially infuriating. Just a heads up.

I've read both of Purple Gorilla's posts carefully several times and I honestly can't find anything that I'd consider remotely bigoted.  PG's simply pointing out that the in-game bigotry that is presumed to exist in an in-game Conservative environment (hence the existence of the homosexuality issue on the Issues screen) doesn't appear to be reflected in the mechanics. SlatersQuest and Devastator's points are good ones - it's more about (a) the portrayal of a cartoonish (albeit dark) Conservative world and (b) the fun/ease of use factor.  Mechanics that are too constraining, even when accurate to the game world, can limit fun.

I really don't understand what people are being offended by, here.  Apologies if I'm missing something.