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[Loud Whispers]

The tunneling equipment that exists today is very powerful. It's dual use.

What does that even mean? It can also be used to rest your mug on? Act as a windbreak? Look nice in a display cabinet?

All digging tools come with cup holders for maximum efficiency

[Mictlantecuhtli]

PTW

[Il Palazzo]

The tunneling equipment that exists today is very powerful. It's dual use.

What does that even mean? It can also be used to rest your mug on? Act as a windbreak? Look nice in a display cabinet?

It's got a switch for "freedom" and "terrorist" tunneling.

[burningpet]

The tunneling equipment that exists today is very powerful. It's dual use.

What does that even mean? It can also be used to rest your mug on? Act as a windbreak? Look nice in a display cabinet?

Dual use means that it can be claimed to be equipment needed for civilian purposes and thus go through inspections.

[USEC_OFFICER]

I... No shit? It's tunneling equipment! It's not like they put machineguns, RPGs and an 'MERICA SUXS' vanity plate on it. Of course it can pass through inspections, it's goddamn tunneling equipment!

_{To clarify, I'm not yelling at anyone in particular. It's just that the implied idea that you need seperate equipment for civilian and military tunneling strikes me as rather silly and amusing.}

[Phmcw]

Of course it can pass through inspections, it's goddamn tunneling equipment!

This whole discussion is kind of silly : that fortress would have been pointless for the talibans anyway, and the idea that they could do it without everyone knowing is preposterous.

Serioulsy they are much more efficient using natural caves in small groups than all lumped together in a big ass fortress that you can besiege and bomb at your leisure. Especially since america would be the best nation to deal with that kind of threath.

Big ass bombs? Check! High tech detection equipement? Check!  Years of planning about bombing subterain bunkers during the cold war? Check! That fortress would have been the most usless and expeensive military project since the Magino line.

It's pure, obvious bullshit spewed for the purpose of propaganda.

[Graknorke]

Hey, the Maginot line wasn't useless. It just wasn't exactly complete.

[Phmcw]

It was not uncomplete : there was a bunch of forts in Belgium. Big ones too. The german ovewhelemed one with their secrets weapons (namely shaped charges and paratroopers) and laughted a the rest of the defensive line. And they did it at a place where tanks weren't supposed to be able to cross, too.

So no, the idea was moronic, and anyone competent knew it. De Gaulle spoke against it but hey, it was good PR....

[smjjames]

The way I heard it, the Germans basically went around it because it didn't extend to the Belgian border or something.

[Loud Whispers]

A fixed defence has fixed weaknesses.

As for the effectiveness, people from all across the world have been hiding underground in order to survive against invaders. They're very effective.

[smjjames]

A fixed defence has fixed weaknesses.

As for the effectiveness, people from all across the world have been hiding underground in order to survive against invaders. They're very effective.

Theres also Cappadocia, which is an underground city in those cave complexes in Turkey.

[Phmcw]

The french one didn't. But Belgium itself built a bunch of state-of-the-art fortresses along the border. I did a zombie themed airsoft larp in one of them, they are great. And fucking huge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Eben-Emael

The thing is:  investing most of your manpower into a fixed defensive line is stupid for two reasons. It's too risky, as history shown, and you have 0 force projection capacities, which is even worst.

As for the effectiveness, people from all across the world have been hiding underground in order to survive against invaders. They're very effective.

Yeah for hiding from  attackers, or for holding key positions they are very effective.

[10ebbor10]

Yes, I must note, the Belgian border wasn't exactly undefended. In fact, I dare say that at the time, the Belgium-German border was amongst the strongest fortified borders in the world. The fortresses were considered undefeatable at the time. Sadly, they had exactly zero anti-air defenses, and an undefeatable fortress is bloody useless if it can't shoot back.

Sadly, the Germans weren't planning on a rerun of the first world war.

[burningpet]

I... No shit? It's tunneling equipment! It's not like they put machineguns, RPGs and an 'MERICA SUXS' vanity plate on it. Of course it can pass through inspections, it's goddamn tunneling equipment!

Which is exactly the problem that chap in the link point at when he mentions its a dual use equipment. its not like they need secret contacts in some army to smuggle this equipment for them, they can simply order it from civilian companies and ship it over.

_{To clarify, I'm not yelling at anyone in particular. It's just that the implied idea that you need seperate equipment for civilian and military tunneling strikes me as rather silly and amusing.}

But that's not the implied idea at all. the implied idea is that while there is a distinction between military equipment and civilian equipment (When dealing with inspections and other attempts to restrict equipment from getting into terrorists use) there's also equipment of dual use: civilian equipment that can also be used for military purposes, which basically means terrorists/whatever can move this equipment unhindered and use it defensively/offensively. heck, this equipment can probably even be delivered via "humanitarian aid" convoys.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Yeah for hiding from  attackers, or for holding key positions they are very effective.

I read 'positions' as 'prostitutes'

Equally effective