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[random_odd_guy]

I recently had an immense amount of children throwing tantrums, injuring people, breaking things, getting people killed, etc etc, and while attempting to dispense dwarven JUSTICE, I found that all of the convicted children had [no sentence pending].

So, from what I can tell, children receive no punishment no matter what they do, while they seem to be committing about 90% of the crimes right now, comprise half my population, and are effectively of no advantage to keep as i have nearly 200 dwarves. (had over 200 before the crimes started). This is kind of a problem.

[Merendel]

Nobody is immune to justice, you just sometimes have to be more creative about applying it.   I'd recommend seeing if you can isolate the little rabble rousers in a room and sweat them a bit till they learn their lesson.  Just turn up the heat by applying magma.  They wont be causing any more problems.

On a more serious note I have no idea if children have immunity to the justice system in the code or not.  I suppose its always possible.  Then agian there are so many bugs croping up and geting stomped right now its possible this is another.

[celem]

Nobody is immune to justice

Not true, certain noble positions cannot be convicted.  Your monarch for instance (who may well join your fort) is outside the justice system in vanilla, I forget if anyone else gets this in an unmodded game, but your monarch definately does.

"I AM the Law!"

It occurs to me after re-reading your reply Merendel that this is what you meant: that they are still not immune to 'justice', where justice is you the player taking it out on a sucky dwarf, just Justice, the mechanism in the game,  you can of course give him a magma bath or DAS him.

I cannot say I have noticed children being unconvictable, there is a tag to grant that, which they lack, and im sure in previous versions i've had nobles punish kids for failing mandates.  For instance i remember chaining kids so i've seen them receive sentences.

[random_odd_guy]

my workers are too busy being horrified and having mass pilgrimages to the holy land of the barracks to report crimes (blocking all the halls in the process) to complain about the juvenile delinquents for me to try that too. also that's rather difficult to manage as its hard to isolate them partly because i cant designate to them jobs, and they wont go to burrows unless they have jobs, also they are tantruming. IMMEDIATELY after i convicted a child (just to CHECK), i left the screen, let it run for a tick, went back to justice, saw them in the grey list with "no sentence pending" meaning they got off scott free. i would SINCERELY love to dump magma on the fucks, but that isnt possible at the moment for above reasons, nor can my hammerer or fortress guard do anything about it, because it seems they cannot actually be PUNISHED for their crimes. so even if i enlist my military squad of legendary swordmasters with adamantine shortswords into the royal guard, those children still wont get beat to death. I'm mainly miffed that i cant punish any of them because they comprise about half my population, and are just as liable to flipping out. that means roughly half my population has criminal immunity, which is REALLY bad in a game like this

edit: i mean i WILL survive this as my entire main military squad of legendary in several combat skills with impressive stats and heavy armor and adamantine swords is still all ECSTATIC despite the ongoing tantrum spiral, can't say the same for the fortress guard, but that will be enough, I mean I'm going to make it through this when the rioters all off one another but still, pretty bs i can't execute or at least INCARCERATE them

[celem]

Ok I read something just the other day about methods of splitting children from adults, lemme link you.  A couple of methods in there ought to work including some burrows tricks, bedroom assignments and so on.

Of course killing off children is going to push you even closer to a full-spiral from the adults, beware dude. Flaming FUN this way lies.  Best shot at full riot survival is a very happy death-adapted squad of badass which you seem to have.

It occurs to me that it would be interesting to see the mind of the dwarf passing sentences.  Might be personality traits on the captain of the guard are playing a role in severity?  Soft spot for kids?  Unrealised dream of family?

Seriously, we just dont know v40 yet.

[random_odd_guy]

Ok I read something just the other day about methods of splitting children from adults, lemme link you.  A couple of methods in there ought to work including some burrows tricks, bedroom assignments and so on.

Of course killing off children is going to push you even closer to a spiral from the adults, beware dude. Flaming FUN this way lies.

that is a thread I made, incidentally I've been having a lot of child problems lately. the main problem with burrows is they wont GO there unless i have work for them to do there, and i cant turn on labors. as far as bedrooms go, i havent made any (was using dorms), and cant really make any now as my workers are all panicking.


my military is ecstatic despite the tantrum spiral, so they REALLY dont care. and are also uninjured. so really it doesnt matter how bad it gets at this point, i am liable to surviving it. i just want to END it faster upon this revelation. how do i get all these dwarves killed when my workers are all panicking and the children are all on killing sprees? the military would cheerfully lob all their heads off if i could designate the rioters are targets.

[celem]

You didnt have luck getting them to deconstruct?  I've used that one to move children a few times.  Really hoping Toady hasn't broken that in 40_07 with a deconstruct labor.

Also didn't twig that you started both, you are really having a bad day.

Girlinhat had a few good suggestions, and is exactly the person who would know which ones work, having plumbed some...shall we say odd...depths in DF.  Including several child research programs with heinousdwarfy ethics.

I would probably start with bedrooms, I do see children in bedrooms a LOT, since I dont assign rooms, just create them to be claimed by the next dwarf to sleep there, most of my kids have rooms and hang out there a lot.  Build a wall in their room and try and get them to come deconstruct.  As soon as the wall flashes you check 'u' to see who got the job and can it/re-designate if its not a child.

EDIT: ok, lets speed up the spiral then, wheres the biggest brawls?  dining rooms, busy corridors, station the badass military there and some idiot will take a swing, once they get going though you may not be able to pull them in.  Im not sure if they will react just at the sight of violence, a tantrum isnt a loyalty-cascade after all.  This may leave you with more or less just your squad if it goes poorly, since it may not be the children who hit them first, but unhappy productive workers.  Anyone punching a military dwarf is going to go down, just watch the miners.  Once you thin the numbers it may become more managable.

Another idea is to set the military off-duty and try and get them to move some bodies if you got stuff piling up and creating Horrified loops, though the fighting will be scaring the civvies just as much.

[random_odd_guy]

Actually I think the thing with the other thread was actually a memory leak issue as today I'm doing just fine with nearly twice as many dwarves. I also mined out hundreds of adamantine without triggering the invasion, so I was doing great until everyone started inexplicably rioting. (I think something happened while i was busy with the damn adamantine) (do these strand extractors EVER get out of dabbling?)

ive hardly had any seiges, only one goblin one that immediately fled in terror upon reaching my ENTRANCE HOLE for reasons i cannot fathom (apparently my front door terrified them all for some reason), and infrequent weretapirs. this is the ONE thing that has gone wrong. I even got past tantruming marksdwarves earlier that happened when the iron production was much slower than i had thought and they went naked for a while. hopefully with my immense population a good amount of them will be death adapted by the end of this. Its really hard to do anything as the only ones not freaking out are the military, and they won't DO manual labor. I could try burrows but its unlikely they will actually go there. i guess i could make a burrow on the front lawn and activate an alert to send all the civies out there to weed out the numbers, as it is they are mostly just staining my halls with blood

[celem]

Yeah try combos of station and burrow to pile the trouble onto the military and get some legitimate targets for them.

The siege you got didnt get scared of the door, you probably have a pet duck, or it was a passing weasel/pigeon, or a dead kobold.  Everybody got Discipline problems right now.  HFS will hammer its way up the spoiler tube, obliterate your miner with a wicked cackle, then cry in horror for months at the sight of his corpse.  Its very DF and all, but personally i've laced just about every critter in RAWs with some kind of natural Disc, alongside healing for nails/cartiledge, quarry bush fix and a number of other little tweaks to get rid of known but still un-patched bugs remaining in the latest release..

you wont have had other seiges since they havent worked at all in 40_xx until the latest 07 release.  The first one was bandits.  And finally strand extraction is a super super slow skill.  It technically trains as fast as any other, you get the 'same' xp for completing a job, but as you saw strand extract is a really long job so dabblers skill like glaciers.  Any immigrant with even novice is your goto guy.  If you need it in a rush, assign loads, if you got time train 1 guy.

[random_odd_guy]

Yeah try combos of station and burrow to pile the trouble onto the military and get some legitimate targets for them.

The siege you got didnt get scared of the door, you probably have a pet duck, or it was a passing weasel/pigeon, or a dead kobold.  Everybody got Discipline problems right now.  HFS will hammer its way up the spoiler tube, obliterate your miner with a wicked cackle, then cry in horror for months at the sight of his corpse.  Its very DF and all, but personally i've laced just about every critter in RAWs with some kind of natural Disc, alongside healing for nails/cartiledge, quarry bush fix and a number of other little tweaks to get rid of known but still un-patched bugs remaining in the latest release..

you wont have had other seiges since they havent worked at all in 40_xx until the latest 07 release.  The first one was bandits.  And finally strand extraction is a super super slow skill.  It technically trains as fast as any other, you get the 'same' xp for completing a job, but as you saw strand extract is a really long job so dabblers skill like glaciers.  Any immigrant with even novice is your goto guy.  If you need it in a rush, assign loads, if you got time train 1 guy.

i have two dedicated extractors still extracting for me despite the fighting. armok bless their souls. ill try forcing everyone into one spot to see if that ends the stupidity, hopefully i can just last with my 2000 food units until the next migrant wave

i have successfully contained the children in a large rectangle outside, and separated them from the adults. i now plan on having a miner mine down the area below it several z levels, then dropping the entire thing sending them all straight to the circus

[Merendel]

Nobody is immune to justice

Not true, certain noble positions cannot be convicted.  Your monarch for instance (who may well join your fort) is outside the justice system in vanilla, I forget if anyone else gets this in an unmodded game, but your monarch definately does.

The hammerer or sheriff may not be able to touch some people including various pompous nobles but even the monarch can suffer an unfortunate accident.  And thus after such an accident true justice is served.  No dwarf is immune to the justice of Armok's blood (unless they are undead and then the blood requires a bit of help)

I know you got the joke in the edit but honestly the "Justice" system built into the game is so arbitrary and bizzar as to be nearly pointless half the time.  I'm more inclined to apply a bit of "Overseer Justice" when the true justice system fails to get the job done.

Out of curiosity random guy what method did you use to isolate the children?  I've had limited success with normal burrows.  The only way I'v been able to isolate all children in the past was to recruit and station the entire adult population and then set a civilian alert to a small burrow to get the little morons to "Run inside where its safe".

[Larix]

I recently had an immense amount of children throwing tantrums, injuring people, breaking things, getting people killed,

Wow. You must be an impressively bad overseer.

etc etc, and while attempting to dispense dwarven JUSTICE, I found that all of the convicted children had [no sentence pending].

Well, dwarves have a civilisation, and as civilised people, they don't hold children to be fully legally culpable. I think you'd get the same result if you convicted domestic animals - they can be held responsible, but won't be punished.

[random_odd_guy]

Nobody is immune to justice

Not true, certain noble positions cannot be convicted.  Your monarch for instance (who may well join your fort) is outside the justice system in vanilla, I forget if anyone else gets this in an unmodded game, but your monarch definately does.

The hammerer or sheriff may not be able to touch some people including various pompous nobles but even the monarch can suffer an unfortunate accident.  And thus after such an accident true justice is served.  No dwarf is immune to the justice of Armok's blood (unless they are undead and then the blood requires a bit of help)

I know you got the joke in the edit but honestly the "Justice" system built into the game is so arbitrary and bizzar as to be nearly pointless half the time.  I'm more inclined to apply a bit of "Overseer Justice" when the true justice system fails to get the job done.

Out of curiosity random guy what method did you use to isolate the children?  I've had limited success with normal burrows.  The only way I'v been able to isolate all children in the past was to recruit and station the entire adult population and then set a civilian alert to a small burrow to get the little morons to "Run inside where its safe".

i went outside, created a large rectangle burrow, assigned all the children to it, and then told everyone to run inside, then after everyone was in the rectangle, i ended the alert, the children remained because they had entered their burrow.

I recently had an immense amount of children throwing tantrums, injuring people, breaking things, getting people killed,

Wow. You must be an impressively bad overseer.

etc etc, and while attempting to dispense dwarven JUSTICE, I found that all of the convicted children had [no sentence pending].

Well, dwarves have a civilisation, and as civilised people, they don't hold children to be fully legally culpable. I think you'd get the same result if you convicted domestic animals - they can be held responsible, but won't be punished.

to that first one, I suffered a tantrum spiral while i was distracted mining adamantine, that has been my only real falling point so far. it took me over an in game year to suffer any casualties. to the second one, that's still bs because it means things like this can happen. when a significantly large amount of your population is children, that is a serious problem.

[Repseki]

I've never seen a child sentenced to anything, but my current King, who inherited the position from his mother after she took a possibly mandate encouraged fall, was recently sentenced and chained after some minor beating when I convicted them of a few cold cases. I had thought they would be immune to the justice system, but didn't mind seeing them getting beat up and chained.

This is on a fort started in 40.06, now on 40.08, so I'm not sure if it is intended to be this way or something funky going on. I also continue to receive a trade liaison, even though the Queen gained their position in the first year of the fort.

So nobles might not be as immune to the justice system as they used to be.

[Dorf and Dumb]

Of course the children should be immune from justice.  Why, my mayor has a masterwork golden chain zoned for justice built into the smoothed floor of his bedroom, right next to his beautiful masterwork bed.  That way he can keep a close eye on those nasty law-breaking dorfs.  You know, whatever the witnesses say, the law-breakers all seem to be female around here.  Popping out children like rats, abandoning tasks to find them, constantly lugging them around into combat zones and then getting upset when they fulfill their purpose in ammo absorption, nasty, wicked, lustful creatures all, they need to be put under some proper authority, you see.  Right under.