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[Flying Dice]

First, you mean CoDzilla, not CaDzilla.
-snip-

* Flying Dice shrugs.

The implication is more-or-less the same, unless you're an pedant, considering that the term refers to the concept of a heavily broken melee caster, rather than a specific way of building the same. Both clerics and druids can be build like that, hence 'and'. But have fun obsessing over abbreviations.

Regarding the action economy and relative efficiency of arcane casters vs. martial classes at low levels. I'm not going to get into another pointless argument with you, bud. Maybe you've got points I might agree with, maybe you don't, but my past experience with you is that you've got your opinions and are unwilling to budge, which defeats the purpose of rational exchange.

[Harbingerjm]

First, you mean CoDzilla, not CaDzilla.
-snip-

* Flying Dice shrugs.

The implication is more-or-less the same, unless you're an pedant, considering that the term refers to the concept of a heavily broken melee caster, rather than a specific way of building the same. Both clerics and druids can be build like that, hence 'and'. But have fun obsessing over abbreviations.

No, see, a CaDzilla is also a thing; a different thing. One that is either a terrifyingly broken Gestalt build combining Wildshape and Cleric buffs (particularly persist metamagic), or a quite terrible multiclass.
Pointing out that it's a pedant not an pedant would be pedantic. Pointing out that the term you are using actually refers to something completely different and not what you apparently think it does is not.

Regarding the action economy and relative efficiency of arcane casters vs. martial classes at low levels. I'm not going to get into another pointless argument with you, bud. Maybe you've got points I might agree with, maybe you don't, but my past experience with you is that you've got your opinions and are unwilling to budge, which defeats the purpose of rational exchange.

Perhaps if any of your exchange was actually rational argument based on some degree of knowledge, there might be some reason for me to change my stance. So far, you've left me extremely unimpressed in every "difference of opinion" we've had, both in the opinions you attempt to argue and in the way you deal with others. Statistically speaking, a single level 1 spell can and usually will utterly trivialise an encounter. There is no opinion to that, it's just fact. Unless you're playing a Blaster Caster, in which case Quadratic Wizard doesn't apply either.

[Nerjin]

Please stop.

[Tawa]

Ditto.

[Flying Dice]

Don't worry, I've had him on ignore for a while. Honestly should have resisted the temptation to open the last one, and I will this time.

[TD1]

On a semi-related topic,  I tried to ignore Tuypo and for the life of me couldn't figure it out. How do you do it?

[Flying Dice]

On a semi-related topic,  I tried to ignore Tuypo and for the life of me couldn't figure it out. How do you do it?

Profile -> Buddies/Ignore List (the last link on the left) -> Edit Ignore List -> Add member.

TBH I've hardly used it, though, except for blocking Toadburger alts.

[TealNinja]

On a semi-related topic,  I tried to ignore Tuypo and for the life of me couldn't figure it out. How do you do it?

Profile -> Buddies/Ignore List (the last link on the left) -> Edit Ignore List -> Add member.

TBH I've hardly used it, though, except for blocking Toadburger alts.

Harb posted that on my behalf, as he is a great deal more experienced with D&D.  I knew that misinformation was being spread around, but as I'm not familiar enough with the material to clarify what and why, I asked him to do it.  I'd thank you not to give him crap when he was doing a favour for me.

I knew, and know, that the Wizard outclasses the Fighter at level 1.  With most Wizards, they are fully capable of dealing with encounters by themselves, except against large numbers of weak monsters (although, arguably they are still more equipped for dealing with them than Fighters, given crits against Fighters and Grease for Wizards, not to mention if things go bad, Wizard can cast Obscuring Mist and Expeditious Retreat, and a Fighter just dies.)

[Nerjin]

Yes, but, protip: People don't like it when you are actively hostile towards them. I like Harbinger [even though I think he dislikes me... For good reason I'll admit.] but he does seem to have a penchant for saying the exact right thing to make other people angry.

[TealNinja]

He was actually entirely civil with his first post here.  If you reread it, it wasn't intended to anger anybody.  Then Dice said, basically, "semantics don't matter" when, really, they do if you're looking to get better at D&D.  This is especially a problem here, where a lot of people don't know many of the rules and costs, and those who do ask for power upgrades from DMs who don't know any better.  We need to understand what these problems are and why they exist, and after that we can work to "solve" them.  Not that the problem of Tier 1's can actually be "solved," but we can somewhat mitigate their power.

[Nerjin]

Some people get annoyed when you correct them needlessly. Can we please just drop all of this please? Issue has been solved. Questions were answered. Let's just leave it at that.

[Flying Dice]

Actually, there are a couple reasons:

1. Stating opinions as incontrovertible facts. This is the sort of thing where you say "I disagree," rather than "You are wrong, stop pretending you know what you're talking about." This isn't a peer-reviewed study supported by empirical research, it's people with different opinions.

2. He and I were already on bad terms because of another time where he didn't agree with me and started an argument in pretty much the exact same way, minus restraint from me. It's the one where either you or him tried to report me because I didn't roll over and play dead, if I recall.

3. He's not active in the campaign. It feels quite heavily like he's going out of his way to poke his nose into places just to try to get one over on people and "prove" how superior he is -- by haranguing people over differences of opinion and insubstantial tidbits.

There are ways to be a hostile jerk without blatantly insulting people, you realize? Worse, instead of just dropping it, he calls you up to tag in for him and continue the argument by defending him and deliberately misquoting people? The problem is quite evident, I think. I'm not the DM for this campaign, but I jolly well will report you or him if you try to start more arguments, okay? I'm not going to be responding to you any more either.

[TealNinja]

Actually, there are a couple reasons:

1. Stating opinions as incontrovertible facts. This is the sort of thing where you say "I disagree," rather than "You are wrong, stop pretending you know what you're talking about." This isn't a peer-reviewed study supported by empirical research, it's people with different opinions.

2. He and I were already on bad terms because of another time where he didn't agree with me and started an argument in pretty much the exact same way, minus restraint from me. It's the one where either you or him tried to report me because I didn't roll over and play dead, if I recall.

3. He's not active in the campaign. It feels quite heavily like he's going out of his way to poke his nose into places just to try to get one over on people and "prove" how superior he is -- by haranguing people over differences of opinion and insubstantial tidbits.

There are ways to be a hostile jerk without blatantly insulting people, you realize? Worse, instead of just dropping it, he calls you up to tag in for him and continue the argument by defending him and deliberately misquoting people? The problem is quite evident, I think. I'm not the DM for this campaign, but I jolly well will report you or him if you try to start more arguments, okay? I'm not going to be responding to you any more either.

What he's saying is incontrovertible "fact" (as fact as it can be).  It's the entire reason for the Tier list; the Wizard is stronger than the Fighter at all levels.  It is a peer-reviewed study supported by empirical research.  People have sat down and looked at the options available to the Wizard versus the Fighter, and have concluded the Fighter is inferior.  It wasn't only Harb who did this, it was a great number of people over a long period of time.  This isn't to say that the Wizard is better than the Fighter.  The Fighter can certainly be the best choice for circumstances.  Those circumstances just assume that the party doesn't want a Tier 1.  It doesn't want someone to be super strong in every situation.  This is generally most true when the entire party is around the same Tier.

You are also giving crap to Harb for "starting" something when I explicitly asked him to come in for me as he's more experienced with D&D than me.  I was the one with the problem of people saying that the Fighter was better than the Wizard at level 1.  This wasn't true for what was being argued, and it certainly wasn't true by the example given.  You never offered any kind of proof that the Fighter was better than the Wizard, only stated it, and when challenged, you insulted him (for prior aggression) and refused to actually enter into a discussion with him whilst writing him off.

When I enter in to defend his integrity, you assault my integrity (again, for prior aggression in which you were the primary offender).  Yes, Harb is a jerk.  We get that.  It's not that difficult to see past him being a jerk and actually get along with him.  I will also not stand here and let you rail on other people.

[Tawa]

Please stop.

[Toady One]

The OP has asked a couple of times for the current discussion to stop, and it's still going on.  I don't want another post about it, assuming the thread has somewhere to go (I have no idea, but the OP can re-rerail it as necessary).