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Kobold Arena-like summonings of hostile creature to defeat for rewards.

Alchemy makes potions that give permanent boosts to the hermit.

A vampirism transformation that forces you to kill regularily, or die.

A werebeast transformation that is triggered in combat, like Kobold Druids.

AoE explosive/poisonous trap-components and catapult ammo.

Spawn/Summon pets like squirrels, niths, mountain gnomes, pixies.

A custom "cooked-meal" system, which has you prepare real meals. No more "eat one seed, not hungry anymore"

Massive AoE spell like fire-rain or evil-clouds as a way to ged rid of too large sieges.

Metal transmutation, alchemy based.

Hardcore mode, without all the boni like nopain, custom bone template, free skills, etc.

[Meph]

Whats the point of playing as a lone hermit, if you spawn workers? It would quickly become a warlock like game, with one guy running his place, with minions to do the labor.

[Evans]

Whats the point of playing as a lone hermit, if you spawn workers? It would quickly become a warlock like game, with one guy running his place, with minions to do the labor.

I think that is exactly the point
Rather than having entire fortress full of dwarfs/warlocks etc there is only one Mastermind and his minions.
You start small and at the expense of labor and resources create servants and grow into power.

After a lot of !fun! last evening I think that ability to create minions who will do basic chores (mining/cutting/operating levers or at the very least, hauling stuff) in exchange for resources - this is basically all that this mode is missing.

Hell, I would even love to have an option to raise *past regrets* as *learned lessons* (and be them hermit race limited to certain job types) after necromantic altar is build.

Would make for an interesting game, where actually holding on to your past regrets is vital, until the time comes when you can profit from them.

[Emperor]

Whats the point of playing as a lone hermit, if you spawn workers? It would quickly become a warlock like game, with one guy running his place, with minions to do the labor.

I am not talking about spawning endless waves of cheap minions, but about adding a few ( two or three maximum) workers with basic skills to make your fort run a little smoother at the expense of rare and valuable resources.

[kyranzor]

Could a necromancer not make skeleton slaves from dead enemies? Could a gnome hermit not make a clockwork helper or ten? Could a human druid not summon "children of the forest" which are child elves that never age and only do one/two labors each (randomly and at minimum can haul)?

I think there comes a point in a hermit's life where he needs to create his own companions, one way or another.  Of course, bob the imaginary friend is a good start and you've already broken the ice of allowing external help by having bob there.

[slay_mithos]

Yeah, but if he has company, and minions, can he be called an hermit?

From what I understand, the whole point of the hermit mode is to manage to get all the required things done, in the most efficient way possible.
You try to limit to a minimum any hauling, you only farm/fish the absolute minimum needed to survive, in order to get time for other jobs, like making your defenses ready before you get attacked.

I tend to agree with Meph that if your aim is to have a limited work force, you might want to pick the race that suits you the best, and use dfhack to kill the 2 migrant waves (and whatever number from your starters).

Bob is there, because we usually end up not being efficient enough, resulting in more and more time lost, so a pair of hand to haul and do some menial tasks is nice.
If you really want more "Bobs", you could still spawn them via dfhack, right?

If we end up with extra workers (even if they were somehow limited to hauling), it would take away from the whole hermit idea, and take things more into an "overlord" route of sort.
It might be nice too, but should it still be called "hermit" mode when you are no longer an hermit?

[Meph]

Whats the point of playing as a lone hermit, if you spawn workers? It would quickly become a warlock like game, with one guy running his place, with minions to do the labor.

I think that is exactly the point

-snip-

No minions for a hermit. It doesnt fit.

Bob exists because there are many ways of dying when alone, like a broken bone that cant be diagnosed/set yourself, or dodging up a wall, or down a ditch without stairs. He gives your hermit a second chance to life as well, because if you die, Bob revives you once. He is not just a minion to do labor, he has way more uses than that.

[kyranzor]

May I point out that these helpers etc would be entirely optional? Why not have a hermit with a vengeful whim to strike back at those who exiled him to the wilderness (or whatever backstory you want).

The first x-many years will be entirely alone or just with Bob anyway. It would take quite a long time (you can make it so, by progression/cost of initial access to 'helpers') before a seasoned hermit may get assistance.

It would provide hermit mode with an "end game" and at least the option for people who do want it (it seems quite a few would be interested in it).

The idea is that your hermit remains the center of attention though, all helpers should be very minor in their roles, merely tools to assist the hermit. They shouldn't be equals.

I can see that you do not really wish to allow access to these things, because it goes slightly against the whole initial plot hook of being a hermit - however if you were to implement only basic summonable helpers that are 'high tech', after the time spent being a hermit is long enough for people to appreciate being a hermit, it would make a few people happy.

If you do not support it so much, obviously do not spend too much time implementing the system, but something simple available with certain flavours (like I mentioned earlier, clockwork, fairies/elf children slaves, undead etc) would be a nice addition in the future.

[Samarkand]

May I point out that these helpers etc would be entirely optional? Why not have a hermit with a vengeful whim to strike back at those who exiled him to the wilderness (or whatever backstory you want).

The first x-many years will be entirely alone or just with Bob anyway. It would take quite a long time (you can make it so, by progression/cost of initial access to 'helpers') before a seasoned hermit may get assistance.

It would provide hermit mode with an "end game" and at least the option for people who do want it (it seems quite a few would be interested in it).

The idea is that your hermit remains the center of attention though, all helpers should be very minor in their roles, merely tools to assist the hermit. They shouldn't be equals.

I can see that you do not really wish to allow access to these things, because it goes slightly against the whole initial plot hook of being a hermit - however if you were to implement only basic summonable helpers that are 'high tech', after the time spent being a hermit is long enough for people to appreciate being a hermit, it would make a few people happy.

If you do not support it so much, obviously do not spend too much time implementing the system, but something simple available with certain flavours (like I mentioned earlier, clockwork, fairies/elf children slaves, undead etc) would be a nice addition in the future.

Because what you're describing is literally just warlocks.

[kyranzor]

May I point out that these helpers etc would be entirely optional? Why not have a hermit with a vengeful whim to strike back at those who exiled him to the wilderness (or whatever backstory you want).

The first x-many years will be entirely alone or just with Bob anyway. It would take quite a long time (you can make it so, by progression/cost of initial access to 'helpers') before a seasoned hermit may get assistance.

It would provide hermit mode with an "end game" and at least the option for people who do want it (it seems quite a few would be interested in it).

The idea is that your hermit remains the center of attention though, all helpers should be very minor in their roles, merely tools to assist the hermit. They shouldn't be equals.

I can see that you do not really wish to allow access to these things, because it goes slightly against the whole initial plot hook of being a hermit - however if you were to implement only basic summonable helpers that are 'high tech', after the time spent being a hermit is long enough for people to appreciate being a hermit, it would make a few people happy.

If you do not support it so much, obviously do not spend too much time implementing the system, but something simple available with certain flavours (like I mentioned earlier, clockwork, fairies/elf children slaves, undead etc) would be a nice addition in the future.

Because what you're describing is literally just warlocks.

Well, no, not really - what about all the other possible methods of doing it? The warlocks are all undead etc, what if you want a happy druid person? or a gnome with clockwork servants? Can't you see that people want this for hermit mode, and do not want to play crazy undead warlocks in normal fort mode?

[slay_mithos]

"the people want this", huh?
Personally, I don't, but then again, I'm not usually included in "the people", so...

[LMeire]

I think it'd kill the difficulty, personally. Where's the challenge in surviving all alone in the wilderness when you're not actually all alone in the wilderness? (Bob doesn't count, as he's probably just schizophrenia combined with selective memory loss.)

[danmanthedog]

Does this mean no animals to help with basic labor like fishing?

Ps. Been living with out the interweb.

[Meph]

Can't you see that people want this for hermit mode, and do not want to play crazy undead warlocks in normal fort mode?

You are literally the only person that requested it.

[kyranzor]

Can't you see that people want this for hermit mode, and do not want to play crazy undead warlocks in normal fort mode?

You are literally the only person that requested it.

Alrighty then, forget it.

Keep working on the rest of the epic awesomness of MWDF!

[Challtdow]

Are hermits meant to not be able to smelt adamantine?  I can make thread at the craft workshop, but there's no way to make the wafers that I have found.