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[Lapoleon]

And just when we have one video and a new promise their website and forum go down. This truly is an exercise in learning to handle disappointments.

Edit: nevermind, it is back up again. Still not a nice thing to wake up to.

[SangerZonvolt]

It really depends how you view Kickstarter. If it's an "advance pre-order", then yes. If you view it as putting money for something you want to happen but doesn't have good odds of happening without that money so that it has better odds of being completed, then yeah you do accept that the money may be lost. Same rule as with a Casino, don't bet money you can't afford to lose.

Now, which one Kickstarter is intended to be, well...that's a debate for the ages Personally I've always seen it as the latter, though I do think if a project  like a game has to end before completion, then it'd be right to put out the assets and code for free so the community that still wants it can carry it on. But licenses and contracts have to be have that baked into them, not all artists/developers are comfortable with that idea...

Repeating my previous statement, because reading is hard:

Some of us did not pledge on kickstarter, but actually BOUGHT the preorder option (from a button labeled PRORDER) from the TWS homepage. You can still see the button there, but it had been locked about 2 years ago because they were ready to get the game "close to release".

So I repeat:
I did not kickstart, I did preorder.

[Cruxador]

It really depends how you view Kickstarter. If it's an "advance pre-order", then yes. If you view it as putting money for something you want to happen but doesn't have good odds of happening without that money so that it has better odds of being completed, then yeah you do accept that the money may be lost. Same rule as with a Casino, don't bet money you can't afford to lose.

Now, which one Kickstarter is intended to be, well...that's a debate for the ages Personally I've always seen it as the latter, though I do think if a project  like a game has to end before completion, then it'd be right to put out the assets and code for free so the community that still wants it can carry it on. But licenses and contracts have to be have that baked into them, not all artists/developers are comfortable with that idea...

Repeating my previous statement, because reading is hard:

Some of us did not pledge on kickstarter, but actually BOUGHT the preorder option (from a button labeled PRORDER) from the TWS homepage. You can still see the button there, but it had been locked about 2 years ago because they were ready to get the game "close to release".

So I repeat:
I did not kickstart, I did preorder.

Given that, it can probably be inferred that despite your proximity in the conversation, he's not actually talking about you.

[SangerZonvolt]

Given that, it can probably be inferred that despite your proximity in the conversation, he's not actually talking about you.

He answered someone who wrote directly after me on something I refered to. So given that he either did refer to me and misread me completely, or outright ignored my input, both of which make his statement... inacurate.

Well, not that it changes much. Guess I am just bitter about the whole thing by now.

[MorleyDev]

Sorry, I was mostly replying to the "which is what some people in the industry are saying". I've seen plenty of arguments that Kickstarter doesn't entitle you to the product, not many that preorders don't entitle you to at least a refund.

Unless the preorder is explicitly marked as a "sponsor development to get the game", which does have an implicit (though really should be explicit) "if development fails you don't get he game" so does put it in the same kind of camp as Kickstarter.

I think in the UK at least you're legally entitled to cancel and get back your money, but not sure about the USA since that doesn't have as strong consumer protections.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Where ist das video??? Lock!!!

[lordcooper]

a button labeled PRORDER

Well there's your problem.  You should have clicked the button labelled preorder instead

[Jopax]

Yeah guys, it's pretty clear I've won, let's lock this thing and get hyped in a couple of years again when he posts another gameplay vid.

[ThtblovesDF]

Kein neues Video, ist aber auch keine Überraschung : /

[lordcooper]

英語でお願いします。

[Scoops Novel]

Ev jiyan e.

[SangerZonvolt]

Sorry, I was mostly replying to the "which is what some people in the industry are saying". I've seen plenty of arguments that Kickstarter doesn't entitle you to the product, not many that preorders don't entitle you to at least a refund.

Unless the preorder is explicitly marked as a "sponsor development to get the game", which does have an implicit (though really should be explicit) "if development fails you don't get he game" so does put it in the same kind of camp as Kickstarter.

I think in the UK at least you're legally entitled to cancel and get back your money, but not sure about the USA since that doesn't have as strong consumer protections.

If I am not mistaken and they changed it, this is ruling on kickstarter:

"If a creator is unable to complete their project and fulfill rewards, they’ve failed to live up to the basic obligations of this agreement. To right this, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to the best possible conclusion for backers. A creator in this position has only remedied the situation and met their obligations to backers if:

they post an update that explains what work has been done, how funds were used, and what prevents them from finishing the project as planned;
 they work diligently and in good faith to bring the project to the best possible conclusion in a timeframe that’s communicated to backers;
 they’re able to demonstrate that they’ve used funds appropriately and made every reasonable effort to complete the project as promised;
 they’ve been honest, and have made no material misrepresentations in their communication to backers; and
 they offer to return any remaining funds to backers who have not received their reward (in proportion to the amounts pledged), or else explain how those funds will be used to complete the project in some alternate form. "

I think Josh pretty much violated the fourth point (honesty) as far as is humanly possible when he put out the fake hardcoded video and didn´t exactly honor the rest either as far as we can tell.

[AlStar]

The thing that I just can't understand is how he managed to mess this up. The only reason that he's late is because he's the one who gave us a timeline.

He could've said that he'd be putting out a video every month. Hell, he could've just put this one out and not said anything at all about future videos.

Given the first video, I also don't understand why he didn't have (at least) several videos worth of content, just playing the game that he was currently running.

[Lapoleon]

According to Sean, one of the forum mods who is still in contact with Fenicks (aka, the former half of KDG), Josh had a death in the family. This might be true, or it might be more bullshit. Who knows?

[Cruxador]

According to Sean, one of the forum mods who is still in contact with Fenicks (aka, the former half of KDG), Josh had a death in the family. This might be true, or it might be more bullshit. Who knows?

Honestly, if he had his shit together, it shouldn't matter. The videos should already be made and queued up several weeks in advance.