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[birdy51]

Kickstarter is schrodinger's preorder.  The definition changes as soon as you look at it.  Kickstarter is very careful to never refer to it as anything that would imply a definition.

Regardless of what a kickstarter is, I backed it based on what Josh described as the state of the game.  It's now clear that he lied.  If he had told the truth about the game's state I wouldn't have given him any money.

Ironically, the game might've been out by now if the kickstarter had failed.  Unless everyuthing he's told us up until now has been a lie (not completely unrealistic) the most crippling damage was all done in the name of stretch goals.

It seems like he's learned his lessons though.  The vast reams of numbers and stats leads me to believe he's going for a more systems-based than agent-based AI, if that makes sense.  Rather than AI having choices and making predictions, it just runs the numbers and comes up with a scripted reaction (e.g. orc threat is 50, cylaria is 75, but aventura hates orcs so multiply orc threat by 2, = fight orcs, buy time on cylaria)

Which ironically is probably more predictable and "deterministic" than the AI route.

Hrmm. If I do understand that correctly, if you wanted to add a little bit of flux to their decision making, you could always add a variable modifier that changes every 10 turns or so.

[Damiac]

So this was the game where this guy Josh and his 'Partner' were talking about the game they already had, a game that was playable and existed, and it just needed some polish so they went to KS.

Then after much drama and broken schedules, the 'Partner' admitted there never was a game, and that Josh had tricked him... somehow... and all he could do was 'commiserate' with the backers.

Then it turned out Josh had started another KS in the meantime, for another company, while being totally incommunicado.

But now... everyone is just going to forget all that and pretend maybe despite all the clear signs, maybe it's not a scam? I mean... it's entertaining, to a point, but after a while it's frustrating to see this keep working.

If there's going to be a thread on this kickstarter (not game, there is no game 'yet') then someone needs to come through now and then and post a PSA about how nobody should pledge any money to this project, at least not without knowing the history of what they're getting into.  So that's what I'm doing. 

I'm not interested in debating this or derailing the thread further, so don't bother to respond to this post, ignore it if you like.

[lordcooper]

You, uh, can't give them any money atm....

[Kopistko]

Main thing with TWS today - there are no way to pay any money to KDG. Like, at all. I couldn't find working paypal link or smth like this. If it is a scam, why bother? To escape with backers money? He already did this, lol. But if he sometime later would re-open preorder/pledging without working alpha/beta/demo/game, then yeah, bullshit it was and still is. Otherwise - meh, let him be and do videos and, I hope so, game.

Btw, there are no derailing the thread, it's not like there much going on or a lot of thing to discuss after 2 years.

P.S. Howbout lock thread again, if there are no video before end of the week?

UPD.
Also, are there any info on Josh? There are absolutely nothing on him, no Linkedin, no old twitter account, no FB.

[Jopax]

So what do I win if my bet turns out to be on the money?(as it's looking increasingly likely) Copy of the game?

[Urist McScoopbeard]

So what do I win if my bet turns out to be on the money?(as it's looking increasingly likely) Copy of the game?

Nothing but the cold satisfaction of getting a diminished final product after years of disappointment and anger.

[Xgamer4]

Ignoring that you literally can't give them any money (... I guess you could dig up the old PayPal email and send them money unsolicited if you really wanted to, but that'd be entirely on you), that summary is a bit editorialized as well.

Notably: The partner bailed because Josh refused to communicate with anyone. While bailing, he admitted that he'd never seen a working game - not that it never existed. There is a difference in the implications, even if for us it means the same thing.

The other Kickstarter was started using a business name previously tied to Josh, but was otherwise never legally incorporated by anyone. When pressed, the actual creator - the guy who actually started the campaign - said Josh wasn't involved with the current Kickstarter in any way. And that's about where the evidence ends. It's also worth noting that the last update on that Kickstarter had an update two weeks ago, explaining that they're just about finished with manufacturing proofs and about ready to go into full production.

[ZeroGravitas]

Notably: The partner bailed because Josh refused to communicate with anyone. While bailing, he admitted that he'd never seen a working game - not that it never existed. There is a difference in the implications, even if for us it means the same thing.

one thing i always found curious about this particular aspect

why does anyone trust anything said by Joseph Vivolo? (Fenix or whatever his name was) He wasn't just "the partner" - he was the one who set up the company. He had equal control over all of the assets and money. There were supposedly operating out of the same city.

Of course when he bailed he'd say it was all Josh's fault and that he was just as misled as the rest of us. But why would you believe that?

[Jopax]

And then it turns out they're two people trapped in one body.

[AlStar]

Many of the problems with this project appear to be directly connected with the fact that Josh has the PR skills of a tree stump, or perhaps a dead cat. So much could have been handled better if Josh just kept people in the loop. "Oh hey, it looks like coding an adaptive AI from scratch is way harder than I expected - Sorry guys!"

I've still got my fingers crossed that we get to see video #2 sometime this week.

[E. Albright]

Also, are there any info on Josh? There are absolutely nothing on him, no Linkedin, no old twitter account, no FB.

Given the pitchfork-wielding mobs running around seeking his blood, I find the distinct lack of personal social media presence to be 100% unsurprising.

[Zangi]

Why set these harsh standards when the ball's already been dropped? What is it about this game that brings out incredible pettiness??? Just let it die. If something does come out, great, but it has literally been yanking people's chains for nearly four years now. "Shadows Behind The Throne" exists as an alternative even.

I forgot this existed since I last played, looks like it is still being updated.

[ndkid]

Also, are there any info on Josh? There are absolutely nothing on him, no Linkedin, no old twitter account, no FB.

Given the pitchfork-wielding mobs running around seeking his blood, I find the distinct lack of personal social media presence to be 100% unsurprising.

I think it's fair to say, based on timeline, that his poor social media presence predated the pitchforks, but I haven't done a rigorous analysis. (I bet that one tinfoil-hat-wearing guy has, though.)

[Toady One]

(removed a twice-posted meme image and related posts.  please refrain from posting large images outside of forum games and screenshots, especially twice!  it's in the guidelines.)

also: person that said the thread would be locked won?  though it is unlocked now.

[nenjin]

Always bet on the Toad.