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[Fewah]

Hmm, disturbing.

What irked me the most was the new partner "Paul" saying he had no connection to Joshua and then was given proof he suddenly pulled the whole "Oh that Joshua!".

Anyways, I'm contacted them for a full refund and reported them to the Trades Bureau.
This is enough now.

[Retropunch]

Hmm, disturbing.

What irked me the most was the new partner "Paul" saying he had no connection to Joshua and then was given proof he suddenly pulled the whole "Oh that Joshua!".

Anyways, I'm contacted them for a full refund and reported them to the Trades Bureau.
This is enough now.

Sorrrtaaaaa. I agree, it's shady as hell, but also I know a lot of people in indie industries end up getting intertwined pretty heavily even if the other isn't actively involved.

For instance, I had a friend register me a few domain names he got as a deal with his hosting package - he has had nothing to do with them at all but it made sense at the time. He was involved in completely different projects, but as we were both setting up websites in that area we decided it'd be easier.

I'd also can obviously understand why he wants to take a big step away from him, so I can understand him not wanting to share it widely.

Again, it's shady, but I'd hardly say it's a smoking gun for fraud.

[nenjin]

My biggest pet peeve is devs who Kickstart before their previous Kickstarter has even finished. If this is true then fuck KDG. Josh should be eating humble pie his every waking minute, not pursuing another pipe dream. I wasn't going to ask for a refund but if this shit is real then I will be.

[Chiefwaffles]

God, this thread.
It feels like every time I look at it people have switched again between belief and despair. Every time.

[Fewah]

Hmm, disturbing.

What irked me the most was the new partner "Paul" saying he had no connection to Joshua and then was given proof he suddenly pulled the whole "Oh that Joshua!".

Anyways, I'm contacted them for a full refund and reported them to the Trades Bureau.
This is enough now.

Sorrrtaaaaa. I agree, it's shady as hell, but also I know a lot of people in indie industries end up getting intertwined pretty heavily even if the other isn't actively involved.

For instance, I had a friend register me a few domain names he got as a deal with his hosting package - he has had nothing to do with them at all but it made sense at the time. He was involved in completely different projects, but as we were both setting up websites in that area we decided it'd be easier.

I'd also can obviously understand why he wants to take a big step away from him, so I can understand him not wanting to share it widely.

Again, it's shady, but I'd hardly say it's a smoking gun for fraud.

It's very possible and I'd like to believe this.
But at this point, with all the other bullshit after years now.. It's hard to believe otherwise.

Had that guy just said that he knew josh and instantly explained the situation instead of pretending he didnt it would of been fine.

Things are too shady at this point now.

[Mephansteras]

Eh, I'm still in waiting mode. Either I'll get a working version of TWS in some capacity or another or I won't. *shrug*

[Fewah]

Eh, I'm still in waiting mode. Either I'll get a working version of TWS in some capacity or another or I won't. *shrug*

Heres some very concerning issues, considering the problems and complete lack of delivery from That Which Sleeps.

- Josh, whilst That Which Sleeps was in development hell, has set up a new game company called 2 Handsome. His involvement is proven - he set up the website and is the name on the whois information, his business partner there (Paul) admits his involvement.

- Josh might have been involved in a Kickstarter from September 2016 called Stay Out of My Dungeon!, though Paul denies this.

- Paul admits that Josh *was* involved in Ready Check, a failed Kickstarter from February 2016.


So why the hell has paul admitted that Joshua was involved in ANOTHER kick-starter back in Feb2016, despite not delivering That Which Sleeps? He's also technically, although it wasnt admitted, then involved in Stay Out Of My Dungeon! in September2016.

Theres some seriously wrong shit going on here people or am I crazy?

[nenjin]

It's called dev overreach and it pretty much starts happening the minute a certain breed of dev is more successful on Kickstarter than they initially planned on being.

[ChairmanPoo]

No it isn't. By 2016 it was clear that TWS was 2 years behind scheudle. It's plain dishonesty.

[Retropunch]

Whilst it does seem a little dishonest from Paul, I think it's probably more that he just wants to distance himself from TWS. I can't imagine him stating Joshes minor involvement in any way that wouldn't lead people to believe that they're deeply involved so he probably thought he'd just say that he isn't involved.

It might be that they are involved, but it's equally likely that Josh just happened to help him out with a few bits back when TWS was slightly less of a travesty. Sure, he should ask for the domains to be handed over and whatever, but I can also imagine that trying to get that from Josh would be like getting blood out of a stone.

[Mephansteras]

I certainly wouldn't back anything by either dev until they have a successful project or two under their belt, that's for sure. Any quite possibly not even then.

[Fewah]

Whilst it does seem a little dishonest from Paul, I think it's probably more that he just wants to distance himself from TWS. I can't imagine him stating Joshes minor involvement in any way that wouldn't lead people to believe that they're deeply involved so he probably thought he'd just say that he isn't involved.

It might be that they are involved, but it's equally likely that Josh just happened to help him out with a few bits back when TWS was slightly less of a travesty. Sure, he should ask for the domains to be handed over and whatever, but I can also imagine that trying to get that from Josh would be like getting blood out of a stone.

Ok but Paul directly admitted that JOSHUA was INVOLVED in a kickstarter project they both ran together in February 2016.
The only in which he is saying that Joshua isn't involved in is the one for September 2016.

So no matter what, despite all those delays... Joshua was directly involved, connected and owner of a project for February 2016. Almost 2 years after he's still not delivered on That Which Sleeps.



Just as an update, I spoke to an agent from the Trades Bureau today. They finally returned my call/complaint from the other day, supposedly they're well aware of this "case" as they have numerous complaints regarding this project. I was told legally Joshua or whoever it is has 28 days from the Trades contact with him to refund or deliver the product. However, he did specifically say this isn't the first complaint so they'll be investigating it further and they'd get back to me once a resolution has been reached.

[Retropunch]

Whilst it does seem a little dishonest from Paul, I think it's probably more that he just wants to distance himself from TWS. I can't imagine him stating Joshes minor involvement in any way that wouldn't lead people to believe that they're deeply involved so he probably thought he'd just say that he isn't involved.

It might be that they are involved, but it's equally likely that Josh just happened to help him out with a few bits back when TWS was slightly less of a travesty. Sure, he should ask for the domains to be handed over and whatever, but I can also imagine that trying to get that from Josh would be like getting blood out of a stone.

Ok but Paul directly admitted that JOSHUA was INVOLVED in a kickstarter project they both ran together in February 2016.
The only in which he is saying that Joshua isn't involved in is the one for September 2016.

So no matter what, despite all those delays... Joshua was directly involved, connected and owner of a project for February 2016. Almost 2 years after he's still not delivered on That Which Sleeps.

Yes, but Paul is saying that Josh is not INVOVLED in 'Stay out of My Dungeon' which is THE current THING Paul IS doiNG.

I agree that Josh shouldn't have been setting up more kickstarters or involved in other projects - that's not being debated. The issue is that the email in question is asking Paul about Stay of my Dungeon - not other stuff -  so he can hardly be claimed to be dishonest about what he hasn't been asked about.

Basically, Paul probably has been factually correct in what he's said. I get the anger about it - I'm pissed off too - but I can't see where Paul has lied, he's just decided to be careful about what he's saying (which I can hardly blame him for under the circumstance)

[Puzzlemaker]

If you gave me all that money I could make a game.  It wouldn't have all the promised features (Or most, even) but it would be playable and maybe even fun.

He forgot am important point:  Iterate.  Make progress, don't bite off more then you can chew.

[Fewah]

If you gave me all that money I could make a game.  It wouldn't have all the promised features (Or most, even) but it would be playable and maybe even fun.

He forgot am important point:  Iterate.  Make progress, don't bite off more then you can chew.

Or how there was no playable game or even a long multi turn gameplay video?
Or even some basic transparency really, just consistent updates to explain the fallings.