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[forsaken1111]

It's not the stretch goals. He didn't even have the base game. He was full of steaming piles.

What are you responding to? Or are you just agreeing with us? I don't think anyone is contending that he started out with a base game at any point.

[Retropunch]

I think it's possible for KDG to fit into all the categories above. I don't think it's as clear cut as A) scammer B) unfortunately scope creep.

It's very easy when designing software/games to focus on easy wins/flashy stuff and hope the rest falls into place/you can work it out later. You also realise you need to hook as much initial funding as possible as it's difficult to get any later (when you do all the logic). You then put out screenshots showing that flashy stuff off and then just sort of over exaggerate how close you are to completion.

I've honestly heard software designers say with no irony 'well the program logic isn't there, but everything else is, so it's basically 90% done!'

I can't imagine that he just straight up scammed everyone - there's way easier ways to do it. I imagine that it was just serious, serious mismanagement combined with a lack of game design skills, but that he unfortunately then decided to cover up ineptitude rather than admit to it.

[TempAcc]

Ye, I don't feel the guy was trying to scam anyone, at least not at first. I feel he just bit way, WAY more than he could chew from the very start, and then instead of admitting to overestimating his own ability to deliver anything close to the initial project, retreated into silent shame and denial (with the monies, ofc).

[ChairmanPoo]

Ye, I don't feel the guy was trying to scam anyone, at least not at first. I feel he just bit way, WAY more than he could chew from the very start, and then instead of admitting to overestimating his own ability to deliver anything close to the initial project, retreated into silent shame and denial (with the monies, ofc).

I can kind of agree with this.  I don't think it was 100% a scam in the sense that they likely thought they could pull it off... but the campaign was run on false premises.

[forsaken1111]

Oh almost certainly! I don't think they had the game 'nearly done' as they had claimed. They may have had a rough prototype and design document worked up but all of that went out the window the moment he went from hardcoded data and handmade maps to procedural generation. That is a huge scope increase and, I think, one of the bigger contributing factors to the game's demise. The other being the AI which was talked about a lot but never actually demonstrated.

[ChairmanPoo]

... I don't think the "prototype" was anywhere near operativeness. I didn't think it before, and I think it even less now with the new uncovered data.  Thus, I don't think feature bloat had a real impact because they never went beyond having a few menus for show.

I have suspected this for a while. Really, it has been, what, three years? They could have fallen back onto the original idea or even rebuild the base game from scratch assuming all copies of their prototype had mysteriously disappeared (which is also unlikely: look at Project Zomboid: their PCs were stolen and were set back quite a bit, and they still managed to dig out backups).

[Cthulhu]

Yeah, the fact that the code references lines up perfectly with what we saw int he videos makes it pretty clear that there was never a functioning prototype.

It was a scam, but I don't think it was a malicious "haha gonna steal your money" scam.  Just a guy in way over his head thinking he can Lie For Jesus long enough to make it work.

[Ludorum Rex]

The super weird part is that they were 2 guys on the team. It's not unusual for designer/visionaries to have trouble telling the difference between their dreams and designs, and what has actually been accomplished. But in a perfect world such a personality is kept in check by a more down-to-earth, business-oriented, partner. On the surface, that seems exactly like the division of labor they had going on. But somewhere it must have gone wrong. With one of them posting screenshots of the other's Steam playtime history, I don't think the bad blood was faked, like some have suggested. It's pretty sad that not only was a lot of time, goodwill and money lost - a friendship was also lost. I don't think we'll ever get the full story. Perhaps Josh will emerge from seclusion in a couple of years with a finished game. Who knows.

[Retropunch]

The super weird part is that they were 2 guys on the team. It's not unusual for designer/visionaries to have trouble telling the difference between their dreams and designs, and what has actually been accomplished. But in a perfect world such a personality is kept in check by a more down-to-earth, business-oriented, partner. On the surface, that seems exactly like the division of labor they had going on. But somewhere it must have gone wrong. With one of them posting screenshots of the other's Steam playtime history, I don't think the bad blood was faked, like some have suggested. It's pretty sad that not only was a lot of time, goodwill and money lost - a friendship was also lost. I don't think we'll ever get the full story. Perhaps Josh will emerge from seclusion in a couple of years with a finished game. Who knows.

I imagine that they were both simultaneously pulling the wool over the eyes of the other. It probably ended up that they were both in way over their heads and massively behind schedule, but neither of them would admit it. That, along with a few too many 'I'm almost done with xyz' led to just nothing getting done - I've seen it happen plenty of times before. 

The issue is that they let it go way, way too far. Especially as it seems that the 'in over their head' limit was pretty much any coding at all.

As you've said, we can live in hopes that something pops up in a few years. I doubt they'll ever get anyone to buy anything from either of them, but they might do it as a bit of redemption-ware.

[Scoops Novel]

I'mma delete this thread for your own sake. Peace or i'll pull the trigger.

Can't actually do that, shit. Any way to unfollow it?

[Cheeetar]

You can lock your own threads.

[Sergarr]

This thread sure has changed in tone from page 1. Also, speaking of page 1, the stuff the "dev" has said at the beginning of this thread sure doesn't mesh together well with the stuff we now know about the game's development.

[forsaken1111]

I'mma delete this thread for your own sake. Peace or i'll pull the trigger.

Can't actually do that, shit. Any way to unfollow it?

You could just lock it if you really don't want the discussion to continue.

[ChairmanPoo]

In before the lock!

There were two devs from the Coast
Who of a God Game they did boast
Now they've taken the road
As there was no actual code
And the whole project is toast

[FallacyofUrist]

If you do lock it, I have a final comment.
Though, needless to say, we haven't yet gotten what we were to receive,
But as it seems, the developer is still working on the project.
Maybe one day, a few years from now, we'll have something resembling what we were promised.
Maybe one day.