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[SangerZonvolt]

Maybe I'm missing something but don't the gameplay videos and screenshots show that they 'made an attempt'?

There are no "gameplay" videos. He never presses end turn. The entire thing is probably a mockup in Unity. It looks like there is a game, sure. But there really isn't. It's smoke and mirrors.

Same thing with the screenshots. There are even typos in them that suggest that there is no game engine - like ruler names being randomly misspelled in particular fields. The only real explanation for a mistake like that is that there is no game engine pulling a string from a data file. There is a guy manually entering text into a field to make it look like a video game, but he screwed up.

He did end the turn a few times. I believe it was six turns in total with some events happening. So there was at least some engine running. But I agree that the typos struck me as strange back then, too.

[TempAcc]

Kickstarter is whatever suits your current argument the best.  They took 80,000 dollars of other people's money and have nothing to show for it.  There is nowhere else in the universe but video game kickstarters that people would try to defend that.

experimental research
Speculative drilling
casinos and lotteries
election campaigns
protection money
insurance

I could go on. And this isn't even about whether a kickstarter is donation or preorder, which is an argument I've never taken a side on. Just that there are lots and lots of speculative ventures out there, and to pretend there aren't strikes me as unreasonable.

Erm, you do realize that, except for casinos and lotteries, there are quite real consequences for not meeting a certain standard of expectation in those ventures, right?

Also, you do know that gambling doesn't really fall in the same category here. Like, at all? That is, unless you're willing to make a huge interpretative effort in order to push your argument, even if its just hilarious at best.

I don't think anyone is going overboard by being disappointed and wanting info on a project they put money towards. What is strange is why exactly people are so defensive of this specific project? What is wrong with being disappointed and suspicious of something that is, well, suspicious at the very least?

Also, like zerogravitas pointed out, KSG did claim they played the game. Except now the guy behind the DF forums account said he never did even witness the game being played. What gives?

[forsaken1111]

There are no "gameplay" videos. He never presses end turn.

I see him go through several turns with things happening in this video. He's explaining mechanics, you can see events popping up. If it's a mockup it's an impressive one. I've prototyped things less impressive in Unity which would still qualify as games.

https://youtu.be/Qb2uub1wn0s

[ThtblovesDF]

You'd think his co-pilot is in on it if its a scam, eh?

Anyway, paypal payment is timed out, i.e. I can't refund even if I wanted to. The hype was/is very real for the game and it only comes to show that there is market for it.

Not getting overly emotionally involved seems like a good idea at this point.

[ZeroGravitas]

You'd think his co-pilot is in on it if its a scam, eh?

Anyway, paypal payment is timed out, i.e. I can't refund even if I wanted to. The hype was/is very real for the game and it only comes to show that there is market for it.

Not getting overly emotionally involved seems like a good idea at this point.

Yeah, it just seems crazy to think that there were two guys behind a Kickstarter, and one was really the evil mastermind who duped the poor finance/marketing guy into it.

[ZeroGravitas]

Maybe I'm missing something but don't the gameplay videos and screenshots show that they 'made an attempt'?

There are no "gameplay" videos. He never presses end turn. The entire thing is probably a mockup in Unity. It looks like there is a game, sure. But there really isn't. It's smoke and mirrors.

Same thing with the screenshots. There are even typos in them that suggest that there is no game engine - like ruler names being randomly misspelled in particular fields. The only real explanation for a mistake like that is that there is no game engine pulling a string from a data file. There is a guy manually entering text into a field to make it look like a video game, but he screwed up.

He did end the turn a few times. I believe it was six turns in total with some events happening. So there was at least some engine running. But I agree that the typos struck me as strange back then, too.

There are no "gameplay" videos. He never presses end turn.

I see him go through several turns with things happening in this video. He's explaining mechanics, you can see events popping up. If it's a mockup it's an impressive one. I've prototyped things less impressive in Unity which would still qualify as games.

https://youtu.be/Qb2uub1wn0s

Actually, now that I watch that again, it looks a lot better than I remember. The end turns do happen, although there's so little of the game that yeah, it could still be a mockup (and no end-of-turn pause/process?). But still, where is the game that was described in September 2014?

[Neonivek]

You'd think his co-pilot is in on it if its a scam, eh?

Anyway, paypal payment is timed out, i.e. I can't refund even if I wanted to. The hype was/is very real for the game and it only comes to show that there is market for it.

Not getting overly emotionally involved seems like a good idea at this point.

Yeah, it just seems crazy to think that there were two guys behind a Kickstarter, and one was really the evil mastermind who duped the poor finance/marketing guy into it.

Actually that HAS happened once before from a kickstarted game (or early access I forget)

It was a huge shame and the guy got his money basically stolen. The guy hoarded the money they earned, said he ran out to get even more money, took it all and stopped developing the game.

I'd check its name but it was removed from Steam, HOPEFULLY as a mercy.

[ndkid]

Kickstarter is whatever suits your current argument the best.  They took 80,000 dollars of other people's money and have nothing to show for it.  There is nowhere else in the universe but video game kickstarters that people would try to defend that.

experimental research
Speculative drilling
casinos and lotteries
election campaigns
protection money
insurance

I could go on. And this isn't even about whether a kickstarter is donation or preorder, which is an argument I've never taken a side on. Just that there are lots and lots of speculative ventures out there, and to pretend there aren't strikes me as unreasonable.

Erm, you do realize that, except for casinos and lotteries, there are quite real consequences for not meeting a certain standard of expectation in those ventures, right?

Also, you do know that gambling doesn't really fall in the same category here. Like, at all? That is, unless you're willing to make a huge interpretative effort in order to push your argument, even if its just hilarious at best.

I don't think anyone is going overboard by being disappointed and wanting info on a project they put money towards. What is strange is why exactly people are so defensive of this specific project? What is wrong with being disappointed and suspicious of something that is, well, suspicious at the very least?

Also, like zerogravitas pointed out, KSG did claim they played the game. Except now the guy behind the DF forums account said he never did even witness the game being played. What gives?

I think the "quite real consequences" differ greatly by things like whether there was a contract when the money changed hands.
I think you either misunderstood or ignored a portion of what I said. I have money sunk into TWS, and I'm annoyed by how the past year has gone. I was very specifically disagreeing with the proposition that KS is the only place where people would defend a venture that took $80,000 of people's money. There are lots of ventures that take lots, lots more money out of people's pockets for the possibility of getting something back. We can haggle over the legal and social contracts involved in Kickstarter, but treating it as the only place on earth where people defend getting bilked is, in my opinion, silly.

[Majestic7]

Yeah, I won't comment on forum drama I have no proof or experience of. I understand people are feeling upset and heated about this, but hey, it is just a game. I remember I was really upset about the way Spacebase DF-9 was abandoned and it certainly put DoubleFine on my permanent boycot list. There are other failures I've put money into that have fallen flat on their faces like Forsaken Fortress and that-reverse-xcom-game-whose-name-i-don't-remember.

Still, Kickstart is a speculative venture. It is more investing than buying something. You pay for the guys to have their best shot at delivering the product. If they fail due to things beyond their control or even due to their own stupidity, well... that was the risk you took by funding a product that doesn't exist.

Any talk of legal action sounds like an overreaction and would require proof of malice. Being incompetent is not a crime and a civil lawsuit, on the other hand, would cost a lot more than anyone has put into the game.

[ndkid]

Yeah, I won't comment on forum drama I have no proof or experience of. I understand people are feeling upset and heated about this, but hey, it is just a game. I remember I was really upset about the way Spacebase DF-9 was abandoned and it certainly put DoubleFine on my permanent boycot list. There are other failures I've put money into that have fallen flat on their faces like Forsaken Fortress and that-reverse-xcom-game-whose-name-i-don't-remember.

Still, Kickstart is a speculative venture. It is more investing than buying something. You pay for the guys to have their best shot at delivering the product. If they fail due to things beyond their control or even due to their own stupidity, well... that was the risk you took by funding a product that doesn't exist.

Any talk of legal action sounds like an overreaction and would require proof of malice. Being incompetent is not a crime and a civil lawsuit, on the other hand, would cost a lot more than anyone has put into the game.

There are legal routes beneath the level of litigation. I kickstarted a custom playing card deck designer, who didn't deliver for two years, and stopped communicating. Several of us had to rope in the Indiana (where he was based) attorney general's office to get him to finally deliver. (He still didn't deliver quite everything he promised me, but I got most of what I was originally promised.)

[SangerZonvolt]

Update on my part:
Game developer just contacted me with how he wants to proceed regarding my unban/refund request. I will update again if he actually pulls through with that plan, which he projects will be on following thuesday.

[nenjin]

Some of you guys are ridiculous. Seriously.

Be angry you don't have a game. Be angry you think your money may have been wasted.

But scamming? Are you high? What scammer puts out a map editor for a game they don't actually plan on making? What scammer creates a forum and fills it with 13 billion threads they actually comment in? What scammer tries to build a scenario editor for a game they're lying about making, and releases it?

Be angry. But FFS, quit jizzing into your tinfoil hat.

[Majestic7]

Yeah, that seems loads of work for a scam worth only 80k considering how much money you can make with simple Nigerian prince letter in comparison. Cost/benefit for such scam just isn't very high.

[Sergarr]

considering how much money you can make with simple Nigerian prince letter in comparison

Wait, someone actually buys into this shit?

[forsaken1111]

considering how much money you can make with simple Nigerian prince letter in comparison

Wait, someone actually buys into this shit?

They wouldn't continue doing it if it didn't work