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[Cthulhu]

They're real deadlines, they have a bad habit of setting dates for themselves and failing to keep them.  The only deadlines they've made are the map editor and the original mod tools, both after multiple missed deadlines.

Also one of those was released broken.  That was at the beginning of May.  We're currently waiting for the rerelease of that broken thing.  Which was supposed to come out Thursday of last week. 

That being said none of these have been hard deadlines.  You know that whole Soon^TM joke people make, people are vague about dates for a reason.  Because shit happens.  If they only set deadlines when they're absolutely locked in (they had one thursday but fucked it up with the unity update which was a bad move all-around) then none of this would be happening.

[i2amroy]

They are behind on (the internet's imaginary) deadlines: but so what?

Must be easy to be optimistic when you just delete inconvenient facts from your worldview. Every milestone they've promised has been delayed if not outright abandoned. If we were publishers and not suckers, sorry I mean backers, then KDG would be in big trouble right now.

Oh sorry, I hadn't realized that nobody had said this yet, but... welcome to the world of indie games!

It's very common and very easy to underestimate development times when this is your first true project on a scale of this size. There is a reason why official companies have large groups of people responsible for simply managing projects and setting deadlines; because it takes a lot of experience to be able to estimate deadlines well.

And it's not like this still doesn't happen in the real world either with big companies! There are scads of examples of official games (such as Legend of Zelda for Wii U, or Tom Clancy's The Division) that get deadlines pushed back months or even years. The difference is that you are finally getting a chance to actually see what's happening inside of the development process instead of just finding out at the next big gaming conference when the CEO makes a short statement.

This is not something new, this is something that happens almost everywhere, to almost every game, if you would just bother to look around you.

[nenjin]

Missing a couple dates, fine. Missing most of your dates? It starts to either look like you lack follow through, or are willing to say whatever just to keep people on the hook. Neither are traits I'd appreciate from any dev, indie or AAA.

Being indie isn't a magic pass to be wrong all the time. That's like saying indies are the equivalent of developmentally challenged children and should be forgiven most things, where "normal" children wouldn't be. Indie has been a thing long enough now I don't think they get that kind of pass in perpetuity. KDG hasn't crossed the competency line for me yet, but it's getting there.

[cainiao]

It is sad to see the recent Metal Gear get released like a unfinished product just because Konami want to push Kojima to release it early.

And I would prefer to see a polished product rather than a rushed game.

[thegoatgod_pan]

It is sad to see the recent Metal Gear get released like a unfinished product just because Konami want to push Kojima to release it early.

And I would prefer to see a polished product rather than a rushed game.

  This so much.

Since my childhood, when I first heard of games, games development, or deadlines games were always either coming out on time, full of bugs, or delayed until they come out awesome, and still full of bugs.

There are games which run out of steam and die, there are games that are so ambitious they never quite finish. I strongly suspect this one is the latter and that is fine by me. I just hope they release something.

[Majestic7]

I still think this is an awesome game concept and I hope it can deliver at least half of what has been promised. It is just that starting the game from scratch and changing engines and blah on the run is not a very good sign of stable project management. With poor management, everything is possible.

[Neonivek]

I still think this is an awesome game concept and I hope it can deliver at least half of what has been promised. It is just that starting the game from scratch and changing engines and blah on the run is not a very good sign of stable project management. With poor management, everything is possible.

That is what officially killed Black and White 2.

Though honestly from what I heard it isn't quite as bad as Lionhead had it.

[Majestic7]

Honestly, I'd rather see this game die on the working board than be published and be heartbreakingly bad. It is better to be left wondering about what could have been than have someone shit into your heart.

Of course, the best option is for it to come out and be fucking awesome.

[Neonivek]

Honestly, I'd rather see this game die on the working board than be published and be heartbreakingly bad. It is better to be left wondering about what could have been than have someone shit into your heart.

Of course, the best option is for it to come out and be fucking awesome.

Honestly as long as the game has a soul I'll be satisfied. A Game that feels like 'it could have been great' but didn't quite have the forethought, imagination, or luck to pull it off will always satisfy me versus a game that is modestly good but feels lifeless.

There is just something about this game that feels grand... Like there is something deep down that it does that no other game can do. At the same time though the threat that this game will just be a boring TBS is rather sizable as well. It is up to the developers whether or not the game can live up to its potential or if they will be shackled to the ground by the genre itself.

[Majestic7]

Sure the idea is awesome, so even a flawed gem would be great. Afterall, it could inspire someone to imitate the game and do it again, just better like has happened many times in the past. Trailblazers always have the hardest road ahead.

[Lapoleon]

I still think this is an awesome game concept and I hope it can deliver at least half of what has been promised. It is just that starting the game from scratch and changing engines and blah on the run is not a very good sign of stable project management. With poor management, everything is possible.

It's not so much project management that was at the core of the problem but the fact that due to the unexpected amount of stretch goals reached large parts of the code had to be rewritten.
The Rivals system necessitated the inclusion of new AI routines for all events and gameplay features.
The Procedural Generation overthrew the entire map system and also added new AI routines and mechanical changes.

Anyway, we should hopefully be getting the editors today and this weekend. Then the following weeks should finally show us ingame footage so we can hopefully judge if all the waiting has been worth it.

[nenjin]

I just hope the game is fun, and the flow makes sense. At times it seems like the reason it seems so grand when they talk about it is, the devs have a top-level view of the gameplay. Like, will it make sense from the player's point of view? It's been on my mind since they really started digging into the mechanics.

[Cthulhu]

I worry about that kind of thing with system-based games as well.

The best example I can think of is Alien Isolation vs Dead Space.  In one, the alien follows you dynamically, using its senses to track you around the station even when you can't see it.  in the other, the alien appears at predetermined points.

In practice, there's no discernible difference between these at least in one playthrough.  You walk around, the alien appears, you run and hide until it goes away.  It's hard to make a game based on emergent gameplay through interacting systems look good.  Often it's easier and more interesting to do a scripted game that mimics emergent behavior.

Like this new wave of open world sandbox games.  Mad Max would've been so much better as a linear scripted game.  It's a sandbox but the systems aren't engaging enough, there aren't enough toys to play with and you lose that sense of high-velocity insanity of the movie.

Anyway, mod tools are out.  Or, more accurately, something that resembles what a small part of the mod tools might eventually look like has been released.  :I

It's kind of the third strike for me.  I'll pay a little attention but I've been left hanging for so long I'm barely even interested in the things I was gonna make anymore.

[ChairmanPoo]

Honestly, I'd rather see this game die on the working board than be published and be heartbreakingly bad.

Given that I paid for a preorder back at the kickstarter, I'd feel far dumber if they did not release anything than if they released something shitty

[cainiao]

Well, it always puzzles me of their decision to release the tools first without a beta to playtest the mod.

But the Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills,  what is done is already woven in the Pattern.