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[ventuswings]

That is fascinating Agent concept! Haven't played Shadow of Mordor, but one of the description reminds me of Doppelganger and that's a pretty awesome creature. In one story I read, Doppelganger is an apocalyptic horror that must be contained and killed no matter what the cost, because once released onto open society, it'll keep switching appearance, navigating itself to higher and higher echelons until it attains suitable power - such as that of the King - and wreck havoc.

Also this mention of log makes me curious: is there option to generate external txt log for all events on the game (even ones you don't discover), so you can check them later to read about the events you had no idea took place in-game?

[Cthulhu]

That feels too human a motivation.  What if it when it copies a new person it leaves the old doppelganger behind, slowly replacing everyone on Earth, or replicating to the point that the Earth becomes uninhabitable by sheer volume of doppelgangers?

[KingDinosaurGames]

That is fascinating Agent concept! Haven't played Shadow of Mordor, but one of the description reminds me of Doppelganger and that's a pretty awesome creature. In one story I read, Doppelganger is an apocalyptic horror that must be contained and killed no matter what the cost, because once released onto open society, it'll keep switching appearance, navigating itself to higher and higher echelons until it attains suitable power - such as that of the King - and wreck havoc.

Also this mention of log makes me curious: is there option to generate external txt log for all events on the game (even ones you don't discover), so you can check them later to read about the events you had no idea took place in-game?

I have a debug dump for this into JSON (previously XML) on error or by debug trigger, but no real good way to parse it for readability.  Let me make an entry for the testers and we'll see what they say - considering it's the same structure as parsed by the Serializer class it wouldn't be too difficult to just add a simple "Scenario Recap" view in the editor screen somewhere - or to keep it in memory and pass to another screen on game end (optionally).

We also have doppelgangers as a way to infiltrate guilds, guards, and palaces - it gives you much greater leeway with their actions when an opportunity arises but requires significant arcana skill (currently not bound to a trait but we are debating doing that for balance). 

[ventuswings]

@ Cthulhu; before the new post:
The motivations of my tools are no concern to me.

Hmm, maybe instead of the Agent, introducing it as one of the Lesser Beings could be viable option as well (these can be 'somewhat' recruited as well, right?) and give developer more option to be creative code-wise. I can imagine such replicative abilities going out of control like God of Death though.

@ KingDinosaurGames:
Thanks for the reminder. I recall reading about Doppelgangers on one of the displayed events now. If so, keeping it simple like your proposal is probably the best way to introduce the ability, the Agent in question achieving "shape-shifting" differently to that of the Doppelgangers (like some kind of innate magic?). I hope that system will still allow Agent to hop person to person when convenient or useful, of course with significant risks.

[KingDinosaurGames]

@ Cthulhu; before the new post:
The motivations of my tools are no concern to me.

Hmm, maybe instead of the Agent, introducing it as one of the Lesser Beings could be viable option as well (these can be 'somewhat' recruited as well, right?) and give developer more option to be creative code-wise. I can imagine such replicative abilities going out of control like God of Death though.

@ KingDinosaurGames:
Thanks for the reminder. I recall reading about Doppelgangers on one of the displayed events now. If so, keeping it simple like your proposal is probably the best way to introduce the ability, the Agent in question achieving "shape-shifting" differently to that of the Doppelgangers (like some kind of innate magic?). I hope that system will still allow Agent to hop person to person when convenient or useful, of course with significant risks.

The closest we have to this is a Ritual that requires a token from a Hero (or the Hero to be captured) and temporarily grants you that Hero's reputation benefits and drops misleading clues, as well as having a few other modifiers. 

[Capsicum]

What's the word on post-release support, if any? DLC? I'm tempted to back this game, but I've been burned on Kickstarter a few times already and would hate to throw money at something that's going to die on the vine, so to speak.

[Jalak]

With the endless simulation, will it be a case where being defeated and sealed up simply makes the game "skip" ahead for a time and you rise or and start again. If so, can you have it that your surviving agents (if any) can look for a way to reverse the seal and get you back in early, whether via event or controlling them directly?

[KingDinosaurGames]

What's the word on post-release support, if any? DLC? I'm tempted to back this game, but I've been burned on Kickstarter a few times already and would hate to throw money at something that's going to die on the vine, so to speak.

We don't really have a solid commitment to expansion plans - what we have is a commitment that the game on release will be feature complete, fully moddable, and have enough hand-crafted scenarios to provide a ton of content.  That being said, I can't imagine a scenario where we aren't at the very least adding in new agents, abilities, and classes - though I expect modders to be racing us down that road.

With the endless simulation, will it be a case where being defeated and sealed up simply makes the game "skip" ahead for a time and you rise or and start again. If so, can you have it that your surviving agents (if any) can look for a way to reverse the seal and get you back in early, whether via event or controlling them directly?

We just posted an update going over the Endless Simulation plans, your defeat, just like your victory, will be a "critical event" if you enable Endless Simulation - you can continue to play past these moments within certain constraints.  If you are FULLY SEALED and your agents defeated it still spells game over (we imagine a window whereby a ritual or grand sacrifice or similar can bring you back.)   Being fully sealed will most likely involve the Heroes or Nations fulfilling one of the dynamic prophecies, so even if you are on the verge of defeat you can avert true death by blocking the completion of the prophecy.  The details on this are subject to change based on our proof of concept.

Now... what I CAN'T commit to because we haven't POC'd this, is the ability for a lesser evil under your control to assume your power and for you to then continue playing as that Evil.  I CANNOT say this will be in the game for sure, but we plan to put it on the dev wish list and see if it's feasible. 

Also we posted the Endless Simulation description update today instead of Dev Log #4 Part I (we ran to 48 minutes so we had to split the video, just too much to go over) so we could get it out before we actually hit the goal.  Let me know if you have any concerns or questions based on the description and we'll address what is feasible within the planned scope.  We left it slightly open-ended, because the more we raise the further we can push the Endless Simulation features, but everything we have written is promised as part of hitting the stretch goal.

[Jalak]

Can't wait for the videos to come out. Got a bunch of questions about your post as well.

So with the whole idea of endless mode being that your rise to power is just a period of uncertainty of the fate of the world rather then a foregone conclusion (one way or the other) between light and darkness does that mean you can have a game where you can do your own thing and not try to take over? While taking over the world would probably make whatever "objective" you're trying to fulfill easier, can you actually let the world continue on while you watch and  try to complete whatever it is you're trying to do without interfering, or even benevolently?

Is it possible, or planned, to be able to create your own kingdom but rule it as a "fair" leader (or through one, at least), setting up diplomacy and trade with neighbors and foster your own place in the world? I'd love the idea of getting a bunch of tribal orcs, prosecuted for being what they are and trying to shape them into a noble race of free men (for given value of "free" and "men"). Hell, that scenario start choice saying that you have "children" wondering around the world would be a perfect excuse to set an objective to find them and forge a home.

Also, since heroes are supposed to be solving problems and bringing the world closer together in friendship and harmony (bleh) what's stopping them from doing so in the endless/procedural mode when you're not around to actually contest that?

What does POC mean, by the way?

[Majestic7]

Doppelganger-type lesser evil sounds like a skinwalker, it would make a fine semi-independent actor. So it has the perfect potential to, say, murder and skin a king and take his place, but motivations that make it unlikely to do so without prodding and unlikely to keep the charade up for long. (For example, if it is motivated by novel experiences as different people or something and gets bored quickly.)

Endless mode sounds interesting, any ideas to make it a sort of meta-campaign? So once you beat the world or are beaten, you fall back into slumber and move to a next scenario which is the next cycle of the world ages later? Some of the stuff you did carrying over to the following worlds.

[Vordrak]

I like the idea of Endless Mode provided there is still an option to win by killing / enslaving everyone. I think it would spoil the game if the Great Evil was deprived of Final Victory.

Can KingDinosaurGames confirm that will still be in?

[Mithras]

Quick question regarding procedural generation and the ability to turn stretch goals on and off. If you find the procedural generation goal reached, will you be replacing the current map system with a sprite based map? Will modders still be able to use a single image to create a new scenario map?

[KingDinosaurGames]

Can't wait for the videos to come out. Got a bunch of questions about your post as well.

So with the whole idea of endless mode being that your rise to power is just a period of uncertainty of the fate of the world rather then a foregone conclusion (one way or the other) between light and darkness does that mean you can have a game where you can do your own thing and not try to take over? While taking over the world would probably make whatever "objective" you're trying to fulfill easier, can you actually let the world continue on while you watch and  try to complete whatever it is you're trying to do without interfering, or even benevolently?

Is it possible, or planned, to be able to create your own kingdom but rule it as a "fair" leader (or through one, at least), setting up diplomacy and trade with neighbors and foster your own place in the world? I'd love the idea of getting a bunch of tribal orcs, prosecuted for being what they are and trying to shape them into a noble race of free men (for given value of "free" and "men"). Hell, that scenario start choice saying that you have "children" wondering around the world would be a perfect excuse to set an objective to find them and forge a home.

Also, since heroes are supposed to be solving problems and bringing the world closer together in friendship and harmony (bleh) what's stopping them from doing so in the endless/procedural mode when you're not around to actually contest that?

What does POC mean, by the way?

POC = Proof of Concept, generally a technical demo of something to ensure what we're imagining as a solution isn't ridiculous. 

Yep, the idea is that the AI no longer is GUARANTEED to see you as the end of the world - if you act like the End of the World they will but by default you will be treated as just another threat.  Part of Endless is to let you do a little bit of house-keepering with the orcs, so you may just find yourself with a little more respectable orc rabble.  It will never quite reach a 4x experience, it's more to add a little bit of additional deceit to your approach to conquering the world.

We're lowering the inevitability of heroes bringing the world to an orderly shape as part of Endless Simulation, and increasing the disharmony that is a part of society's interactions.  This gives the world a more natural ebb and flow, sometimes tending towards order and sometimes tending towards more war.

Quick question regarding procedural generation and the ability to turn stretch goals on and off. If you find the procedural generation goal reached, will you be replacing the current map system with a sprite based map? Will modders still be able to use a single image to create a new scenario map?

Yes, we will be replacing the current map system with a tiled map, but the approach remains the same so you would still be able to drag a single image onto the editor and use that for your map.  Procedural will simply be an option to have a map generated for you if you do not wish to use a single (or multiple) image.

[Vordrak]

So we can still win by killing everyone and ending the world, right? (Kind of a core game concept).

[Jalak]

So if you used your own map, how does the game recognize where to put the POI's and what type to have them be, or is it not possible to use crafted maps with procedural generation?
I keep thinking of a sort of colour-coded editor mode for the map before the procedural part begins, where you're essentially given a paint brush that has different colours on it that link it to different terrain types, so painting an area, say, brown would make POIs spawned there made into dessert-type biomes. Obviously the colours would be hidden from view when playing the actual game.