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[thepodger]

Call him the Cook.

[Cthulhu]

I know this is my second double-post, but it's important.  I know there's already ways to bring heroes over to your side by manipulating their willpower and such, maybe some Arthas/Darth Vader shenanigans, but what if you could force them to serve you with a ritual?  Maybe there could be a whole god who does it.  He can capture heroes and turn them over to his side, giving them special powers and such.  Build himself a cadre of unique demigod agents called, I dunno, "The Captured."

And he can be called like, "The Controller."  The Controller and his Captured. 

Yes.  That would be fun.

I like everything but the names. Can we go with "The Dominator?" How about "The Dominator" and his "Taken?"

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

 

See that just sounds silly.

[lijacote]

I'd bury that controller and his captured. Put wards all over that. Ain't no way for things to go wrong.

[dennislp3]

ptw

[NRDL]

PTW

[KingDinosaurGames]

The Black Company, so good - absolutely an inspiration for design. 

The methods for acquiring heroes, and more importantly the Chosen One, are several - you've guessed at a couple (and yes there is an Old One who specializes in corruption, as well as at least three agents who have bonuses in that arena) but there's a few more that haven't been guessed yet, and I like that they'll probably be unique.

Just to give a little flavor, you can actually "knock out" and capture heroes - taking them back to the Seal... well.... I'm sure nothing good would come of it.

So much work done on Mod support last week, exhausting but I'm glad to be back on track with the GUI almost completely replaced.  Our unique icons now total over 300 for abilities, icons, and effects. 

[Little]

ptw!

[Scoops Novel]

I'll need to readup on the list of things to do when you're an evil overlord.

Seconded. This is the kind of second-guessing plotting that the game should bring out in us.

[Cthulhu]

So you can corrupt the Chosen One?  I assume it's still possible for the enemy to win without him?

Black Company is definitely a good inspiration.  Both in the kind of morality issues we've been talking about -- At least when humans are concerned trying to find a moral high ground in a war is pointless, every power involved has done unforgivable things, but even then some things are so bad they deserve to be erased -- but also in the gameplay.  The Elder Evil doesn't automatically take over the world when it wakes up, you've got this decades, maybe centuries-long conflict as the resistance keeps fighting and even almost wins.

[KingDinosaurGames]

Big decision we made about the Chosen One was that if he is "removed from the picture"  before you awaken then fate "weaves another Champion." (think of it as, 'oh we misinterpreted this line of the prophecy')

I know it sounds like a cop-out and maybe it is, but the gameplay ramifications of insisting this one single hero be the key to the entire game seemed to dead-end a lot of other fun possibilities.  So instead, if you successfully identify and kill/corrupt the Chosen One it is a powerful blow to the forces of good and obviously a fantastic Agent to have.  It resets all of the Chosen One's campaigns and engagements, and marks another lower level hero as the new Chosen One.

Why did we do this?  The process of identifying prophecy and narrowing down who is the Chosen One early is fun, and we wanted it to be extremely rewarding without being game ending.  We wanted the game to go on as a challenge after the Chosen One fell, a world with a fallen Champion adds a lot of personality to the now crestfallen heroes who adventured with him and the nations who put their faith in him.  In addition, killing a fully prepared Chosen One towards late game is just as devastating as if we had made only one Chosen One.

[Retropunch]

Looks awesome, I'm super hyped.

I read early on that you weren't sure about having an endless mode - I really do think this is something a lot of people would want and I'd really suggest putting one in - even if it wasn't done in the most elegant manner. It was the very first thing that was asked for and modded into FTL, and pretty much every game of this type has had an unlimited mode put in eventually.

If you did do this, I think the best way to do it is just to make it harder and harder as time goes on, even if it's pretty arbitrary and just a 'stat boost' kinda thing, until eventually you lose.

(Sorry if this has been talked about more, I have read over stuff but might have missed a response or two)

[ScriptWolf]

I have just been wondering what signifies the games end ? Because I remember you saying somewhere when you have awoken you continue on playing.

[KingDinosaurGames]

a) On Endless Mode - I bet I could just turn off the victory conditions and the game wouldn't break it would just go on.  I'll give it a shot and see if it works, but with some of the Old Ones you'd doubtless reduce the world to waste.   I can't spend any time trying to balance this, we're strapped for time as it is, but if this works I'll make the Victory Conditions toggle in the editor.  Then you could adjust hero spawn rate, restrict the Old Ones, and build one yourself.     If it becomes a truly popular option we may make an official Scenario that has a similar idea.

b) The Game End has two meanings for us - one is the climactic struggle by the Alliance and Heroes vs the Old One and his allies and the other are the actual conditions that end the game.  The main way the game ends is Destruction, which is the amount of POIs in the game that are either under your control or that have been reduced to anarchy or ruin.  This means that you can either occupy the world with your hordes, create enough random destruction that the world collapses, or more likely a combination between the two.  Some Old Ones have specific victory conditions, such as one being able to negate all life if he completes a ritual once he has awoken, and another whose victory is tied to the Chosen One.

The game end is generally less interesting than the climactic elements that bring you to it, which is how we designed the AI.  As things get worse and worse the Alliance AI (whichever nations have decided that they must band together to stop the Old One) will grow more desperate and willing to sacrifice itself in order to stop your rise.  You will see massive multi-national armies marching towards your hordes, you will have to manage multiple High Level Campaigns by Heroes trying to find powerful artifacts or perform rituals to impede you, and your agents will be brutally hunted down and killed.

The key to the world is that the nations, if unified and uncaring about their own safety, would always be able to destroy you.  You must keep them on the defensive, concerned about their own needs, and not willing to join the Alliance.  Alternatively, tactically weakening nations that you know will join will make the Alliance weaker in the end.

[nenjin]

Re: The Chosen One.

One way you could balance it is, every time the player kills the Chosen One and a new one is created, it's more powerful than the previous Chosen One. (However they're generated.) That way you end up making the game harder for yourself by constantly hunting them down.

[Retropunch]

a) On Endless Mode - I bet I could just turn off the victory conditions and the game wouldn't break it would just go on.  I'll give it a shot and see if it works, but with some of the Old Ones you'd doubtless reduce the world to waste.   I can't spend any time trying to balance this, we're strapped for time as it is, but if this works I'll make the Victory Conditions toggle in the editor.  Then you could adjust hero spawn rate, restrict the Old Ones, and build one yourself.     If it becomes a truly popular option we may make an official Scenario that has a similar idea.

That sounds completely reasonable. I think an endless mode of any type would keep people happy! As far as balance goes, depending on how you deal with variables/global events (as in, if it's easy enough to do) it might be good to have endless mode generally harder. You'd need to sign post this somehow, but it could be more of a 'challenge' mode of some sort.
 
I think this is needed because you want first time players to play the way it's meant to be played. Possibly you could have it unlock after one completion, although it might be better received if it just to be sign posted as a challenge.