Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 32 33 [34] 35 36 ... 210

Author Topic: That which sleeps- Kickstarted!  (Read 370599 times)

Xantalos

  • Bay Watcher
  • Your Friendly Salvation
    • View Profile
Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarting!
« Reply #495 on: September 26, 2014, 04:13:57 pm »

From what I understand(hope at least) is that those are both kinda alternate game modes that you could put on if the stretch goals are reached? You could still handcraft scenarios, I hope, because that's a big part of the game, but if you wanted something new you could go DF up a world and screw around in it, and if you turned on Endless you'd be some form of fey force just doing it's own thing rather than trying to reconquer the world?
Tell me if I'm wrong, O dev, but I think that's what it is.
Logged
Sig! Onol
Quote from: BFEL
XANTALOS, THE KARATEBOMINATION
Quote from: Toaster
((The Xantalos Die: [1, 1, 1, 6, 6, 6]))

Jalak

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarting!
« Reply #496 on: September 26, 2014, 04:23:32 pm »

Is there any chance of additional stretch goals if you reach the $53k mark with a lot of time to spare?

Considering the absolute massive amount of content that's already being promised, the best thing would probably just refine and polish everything with the extra money. I remember saying earlier in the thread how too much content and detail can be extremely scary to new players and downright confusing to even veterans. Those Supreme Ruler games would be a good example of this. How the hell are you supposed to play that game? I have no idea what I'm doing in those and the manual doesn't exactly help either.
Logged

Xantalos

  • Bay Watcher
  • Your Friendly Salvation
    • View Profile
Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarting!
« Reply #497 on: September 26, 2014, 04:25:38 pm »

Is there any chance of additional stretch goals if you reach the $53k mark with a lot of time to spare?

Considering the absolute massive amount of content that's already being promised, the best thing would probably just refine and polish everything with the extra money. I remember saying earlier in the thread how too much content and detail can be extremely scary to new players and downright confusing to even veterans. Those Supreme Ruler games would be a good example of this. How the hell are you supposed to play that game? I have no idea what I'm doing in those and the manual doesn't exactly help either.
Flail around like I do in Fortress mode? It usually kinda works.
Logged
Sig! Onol
Quote from: BFEL
XANTALOS, THE KARATEBOMINATION
Quote from: Toaster
((The Xantalos Die: [1, 1, 1, 6, 6, 6]))

Cthulhu

  • Bay Watcher
  • A squid
    • View Profile
Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarting!
« Reply #498 on: September 26, 2014, 05:00:24 pm »

The game already kind of seems like that could happen.  Just so much stuff to do especially considering you can drop an agent in any POI when you recruit him.

As far as the actual map goes, how does non-POI space factor into the game?  We've seen poison zones and droughts and such on the map that don't seem immediately linked to a POI, is there like passive or invisible population and such going on outside the POIs?  Is the territory of different kingdoms realized on the map; like if there were some kind of colored overlay could we see the shifting boundaries of each power?
Logged
Shoes...

Nick K

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarting!
« Reply #499 on: September 26, 2014, 05:07:00 pm »

I'm actually hoping that population and so on is all in the POIs. I think it adds a lot to immersion if instead of there just being some abstract population number in the background all the people are in those towns and villages we see on the map. That way your undead hordes could turn a kingdom into an ashen wasteland village by village with the desperate heroes and nobles desperately gathering whatever forces they can to stop the onslaught before too many are dead.
Logged

Jalak

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarting!
« Reply #500 on: September 26, 2014, 05:58:29 pm »

The game already kind of seems like that could happen.  Just so much stuff to do especially considering you can drop an agent in any POI when you recruit him.

The fact that the game seems to a tool tip for everything you mouse over at least guarantees that you'll be constantly reminded of what everything does. So it has that going for it.

I'm actually hoping that population and so on is all in the POIs. I think it adds a lot to immersion if instead of there just being some abstract population number in the background all the people are in those towns and villages we see on the map. That way your undead hordes could turn a kingdom into an ashen wasteland village by village with the desperate heroes and nobles desperately gathering whatever forces they can to stop the onslaught before too many are dead.

I wonder if it's realistically possible (as in, you don't need to go out of your way from trying to win to do it) to render a continent or large island so chaotic and under your sway that there are no nations to speak of, rather the only thing not under your control you find would be heroes visiting from outside in search of bringing order to the blasted hellscape that is your domain. That would be so cool.

Also, are there any plans for a scenario that features a few large landmasses separated from each other? As in, there is some sort of permanent mist or curse rendering the pathways to the other land inaccessible and you have to either do a hero quest or agent ritual to dispel it and bring the two (or more) sides to interact with each other again?
Logged

KingDinosaurGames

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • That Which Sleeps
Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarting!
« Reply #501 on: September 26, 2014, 06:10:03 pm »

We've got our Humble Store account setup for the non-DRM version, but enough people have asked us to go to GoG that we've already applied.

Everything happens in the POIs, it's really the "secret" to our ability to have so much content - by reducing the actual gameworld to just these locations it makes the amount of content and the believe AI feasible.  Effects do cross the POI boundaries but that's because the Nations/Regions compute areas based on the boundary POIs, just to allow for things like the dynamic Country names and particle effects to help with visualization.

We visualize almost ENTIRELY at the POI level, with the connections sometimes used to show supply/trade.  There has been discussion of adding a colored regional display, but I don't think we'll end up taking that route.  I think you'll find that the zoomed out view POI visualization (for guilds, population, culture, etc) actually is functional and looks pretty good too.

Alright, so Procedural... I have written a lot but I'm as lost as you are when I try to find it.  It breaks down in two ways.

1) We will commission 2D Painted-Style tiles to be used for map construction, this takes up the majority of the money accounted for by the stretch goal.  We assemble these tiles OUTSIDE of the main game itself, and they are assigned values based on their location and neighbors.  POIs are then spawned "logically" (this is the part that is annoying to test) and we begin our second phase.

2) We aren't going Dwarf Fortress full on genealogical, it's just not possible for either in the timeframe provided or to even do justice to it.  What we have come up with is an interesting way to do it that pivots off the POI structure already in place.  Essentially we begin with the beginning of this world, generally the birth of the elder races and human tribes.  Turns pass automatically, and every turn each power on the map "takes an action" which can range from expanding, to developing its culture, learning a spell, etc.  These are dictated by the governmetn type and culture - for instance a Tribal culture has a max count of 3 POIs, if it is at 3 it will either develop its culture or one of its POIs will break off to a new tribe with the same culture.  This process continues over time, and you will have an ebb and flow of your power which can be used to "influence" events as they happen.  Eventually your "rise" occurs which lets you almost freely interact with the world, followed by your "fall" and then the world moves along as normal.  We plan on adding in simple mechanics like a "golden age" for cultures or to spawn a famous leader who will temporarily provide a bonus, and who will leave "artifacts" or spells with their name on it when the game begins some time later.

That may seem like a lot, but it's not - once again using the POIs as simple data structures we have already managed to POC this.  The main game itself is not altered because we import the resulting sprite from the tiles into the game with the POIs just like any scenario.  A discussion is ongoing on whether or not we upload this tool so everyone can see it, it's VERY ugly at this point (I built it in native NGUI windows like our original alpha) but it really does let you see how it would work with relative ease.

It will add development time, but we will be addressing it "after the fact" - that is after an early access build without this feature is running bug-free.

Endless mode frees the game from its dependencies on the Old One rising as the main crisis point of the game.  We would redesign elements of the game to let your old one operate like more like a "peer" in the world as long you play your aggression properly - lay forever asleep and watch the world or rise up and try to be a benevolent ruler.  There's a LOT of backend work done on this stretch goal, which will let its true potential be unlocked by modders and scenario builders.   We also will be adding in a Prophecy Randomization that gives you "strange" goals to achieve that will unlock the prophecy of your return, essentially providing additional challenges to the game (though they certainly feel rather gamey). 

Both of these are fully configurable - with Procedural Generation you can simply choose to play a regular scenario, and the elements of Endless Mode will be added to the already existing Game Mode system which lets you customize your experience.

After 53k?  The only thing I would consider adding is more art tiers, because they would involve no work on our end simply contracting.  I would love to add Voiceovers to the Agents and Heroes but there's just so much involved in that process, the budget isn't even the major constraint. 
Logged
That Which Sleeps
IndieDB| Website | Twitter

Cthulhu

  • Bay Watcher
  • A squid
    • View Profile
Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarting!
« Reply #502 on: September 26, 2014, 06:20:48 pm »

I dunno if that helps!  Like when I first played X2 I was completely lost for a couple hours.  There was so much to do I had no idea where to start.

It looks like the design of hte map solves that problem a bit, you've got a good set of immediately obvious options with the orcs and necromancers and Aventura right there and can always try fancy stuff out later on when you know the rest of the map better.
Logged
Shoes...

Mithras

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarting!
« Reply #503 on: September 26, 2014, 06:44:54 pm »

Is the volume of questions eating into development time?  :P
Logged

KingDinosaurGames

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • That Which Sleeps
Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarting!
« Reply #504 on: September 26, 2014, 07:29:59 pm »

haha - I'm getting no development done right now as is - we've got a lot on our plate that is constantly distracting so I'm handling a lot of infrastructure work.  I need to expand our tester program to prepare for Beta backers, have to update our terrible website, working on a solution to our dynamic sentence localization support problems, and I need to get my automated scripts that we use for PC regression testing working on Mac and Linux.   
Logged
That Which Sleeps
IndieDB| Website | Twitter

Jalak

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarting!
« Reply #505 on: September 26, 2014, 07:37:35 pm »

So when you say "benevolent" you don't mean burn the world to ash? What sort of mechanics would you have to make that interesting while still giving the impression of an Old One?
Logged

KingDinosaurGames

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • That Which Sleeps
Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarting!
« Reply #506 on: September 26, 2014, 08:18:53 pm »

We haven't gone into detailed design yet for that aspect of the stretch goal, but we envision various methods to "coerce" submission from those that make up your kingdom.
Logged
That Which Sleeps
IndieDB| Website | Twitter

Cthulhu

  • Bay Watcher
  • A squid
    • View Profile
Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarting!
« Reply #507 on: September 26, 2014, 08:47:01 pm »

It's doable!  Probably more realistic really.  Remember Black Company?  The villains were still fighting (and really kind of losing) hundreds of years after the big return.

Also a good example of multiple villains.  Think that could be a possible interaction?  Less morally black-and-white characters and factions temporarily working with one villain to keep a much much worse one from rising?
Logged
Shoes...

KingDinosaurGames

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • That Which Sleeps
Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarting!
« Reply #508 on: September 26, 2014, 09:20:49 pm »

Absolutely, a key component of the Multiple Old Ones is allowing for alliances (temporary and stressful) between Old Ones and the Mortal Kingdoms.
Logged
That Which Sleeps
IndieDB| Website | Twitter

Jalak

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarting!
« Reply #509 on: September 26, 2014, 09:24:10 pm »

So how do area-of-effect rituals work when there technically isn't any actual "distance" between each connected POI? Is it a simple case of all POI within, say, 2 travel points from where the ritual originated get affected or is there something more complex in place?
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 32 33 [34] 35 36 ... 210