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Author Topic: That which sleeps- Kickstarted!  (Read 373170 times)

Hanzoku

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Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarted!
« Reply #2745 on: November 22, 2017, 09:39:44 am »

I'm sort of for just locking the thread again. It gets unlocked, gets two pages of updates which is mostly drama and rehashing drama and...?

I'm with your original locking reason, let's talk about this if something is ever actually released.
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ThtblovesDF

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Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarted!
« Reply #2746 on: November 22, 2017, 09:55:51 am »

I mean if that is the standart you can close all threads for all early access games "Can't download anything, lets not talk about it".

Plenty of material in the video...
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Mephansteras

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Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarted!
« Reply #2747 on: November 22, 2017, 10:02:24 am »

We may also get some more videos out of him. Here is what he said in the backer update that came with that video:

Quote
Going forward I will be posting a video every week until release, please keep your eyes on the YouTube channel for updates as I move forward.  I understand the healthy skepticism you may feel towards that statement and respect it.

I apologize for the silence - I haven't dealt with the defects both in development and in design in a respectful or professional manner.  I've essentially put four years of my life into this game and the setbacks that recur have felt crippling at times and I turn inward as a coping method. 

The game is in a good state - it's complex, polished, and rich with content.  I'll be working hard to get it out to you as soon as possible.

Design wise obviously a lot of things have changed.  The major changes have been gating challenges behind Local Assets and with Profile being fluid.  I'll write up a full description of the mechanics and the implications they create/solve in the next update.
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Hanzoku

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Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarted!
« Reply #2748 on: November 22, 2017, 10:36:08 am »

I mean if that is the standart you can close all threads for all early access games "Can't download anything, lets not talk about it".

Plenty of material in the video...

Most early access games aren't composed of equal portions of skub, drama and accusations of scamming/incompetence/breakdowns. Most I'm fine to live and let live, but this one seems to regularly turn into internet slap fights.
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Jopax

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Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarted!
« Reply #2749 on: November 22, 2017, 10:42:57 am »

Put it this way, most early access threads don't reach 180+ pages where 90% of them are arugments on wether or not a game is a scam or not.
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Cruxador

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Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarted!
« Reply #2750 on: November 22, 2017, 11:25:47 am »

Ok, so how about we divert this into a conversation about the video itself.

It looks pretty well polished to me. Nice art assets, various views of the map.

Also complex...lots and lots of numbers everywhere. Which I'm not opposed to in this sort of game, mind you, though it did make it a bit hard to follow along with what he was talking about sometimes.

I do like the mechanics that he showed off, though. The various agents and the actions they can do looked interesting and very much in line with the sort of thing that we'd been promised way back when.

It has many of the same curious elements, like turns that process instantly. Like at 4:00 where he clicks forward two turns with two clicks and seemingly 0 processing time.
Considering nothing really happens in a single turn, and that optimization is the sort of thing you can throw yourself into if you're in denial about not having a proper plan, and that he's probably showing it on a pretty nice computer, if the turns didn't process very quickly that would be easy more of a red flag than that they do.

I thought the video showed great promise - it looks like exactly the kind of thing that I would love to play.
As a bonus, the graphics/art assets look really polished.

Now, that said - I'm glad I'm not a backer, because this game has been a total shitshow for - what is it? Years now?

However, when/if it ever emerges onto Steam, I will be purchasing it.
This is my perspective as well.

I dunno, it's still firmly within in the timeline of most Kickstarter games. Shit, I backed Rogue-U a couple years before this and it still ain't out yet either.

Decidedly fewer people shouting FRAUD at that game though.
The articles of concern are less to do with the time scale by itself and more to do with communication issues. Saying there will be a demo or a video at a certain time and then failing to deliver are way more damaging than saying nothing.

It'll be interesting to see if he can actually stick to a plan and do weekly updates for even one week.

Really this video just has soooo many moments of numbers adjusting, mouse touching a pop-up for 0.2 sec and there being something.

This is my problem too. It looks like this is the sixth video in a series, after going though expanding all the mechanics he's ready to actually show some gameplay. But it's not, it's the first one. Like putting aside if this is fraud or not, the video seems kinda crap because it's just throwing a bunch of contextless gibberish out. Too fast, too lacking in explanations of what mechanics do. Maybe there's background context somewhere, but I wasn't really able to find it for most of this video. Like he mentions a lot about how he wants madness and how of course madness is good but never describes wtf madness is?

I guess it'd be somewhat understandable if this was actually a real working game, he'd want to show as much of it as possible as fast as possible to get people to stop thinking he's a fraud. But yeah, for now, I'm going to have to hold any judgement about the game because I still have no idea how it works (other then vaguely sending agents to do "things" at "places")
The game definitely needs a tutorial built in that explains the mechanics better than he does. He mentioned something about gating mechanics, but I think so far he's using that too conservatively, and perhaps picking the wrong mechanics to gate. Hell, there's entire UI elements that ought to be gated.
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ThtblovesDF

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Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarted!
« Reply #2751 on: November 22, 2017, 11:41:36 am »

Something to play > Ease of play
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Cruxador

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Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarted!
« Reply #2752 on: November 22, 2017, 12:27:26 pm »

Something to play > Ease of play
Depends on your life. I'm in the stage where convenience matters a lot as there's only so much time available. Although even among teenagers, retired folks, and similarly idle people, I think it's a pretty substantial majority that would like more guidance than the video showed. The "video every week until release" line implies that release is supposed to be soon, but I don't really think the game is close to ready yet. It's ready for a demo or early access, sure, but for full release good core gameplay isn't often as impactful as good presentation. Though I'm not saying we've seen enough to be sure of good core gameplay yet, what we've seen so far does at least imply a fun sandbox, and I'd like to see it reach its potential and be fun.
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neotemplar

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Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarted!
« Reply #2753 on: November 22, 2017, 12:28:42 pm »

Every time I think I’m out, They pull me back in.

Regardless, at this point the drama has reached the level of entertainment in its own right. I vote we wait until the next scheduled (lol) update. If he doesn’t produce we can lock it till he puts out news again.
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Retropunch

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Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarted!
« Reply #2754 on: November 22, 2017, 12:29:52 pm »

Whilst I'm still sceptical, if he is actually releasing new stuff each week then I think it's fine to keep the thread open.

I don't ever agree with locking threads (banning/warning users is different) but it's sort of ok if there isn't anything new to discuss and it's just going round in circles. Now that there is new stuff to talk about (and we have been promised there will be more) then it's sensible to keep it open.

Of course people are going to be sceptical/talk about how it's a scam - it's been a major part of the development cycle - however if there's new stuff, then people will chat about that more and more until it's not an issue.

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Mephansteras

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Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarted!
« Reply #2755 on: November 22, 2017, 12:39:36 pm »

Yeah, I'm very curious to see what he comes up with for the next video.

And, in fact, I think I'll post on the kickstarter about some suggestions for what he does next. Maybe a nice basic overview video? This last one showing gameplay was good from a 'Look! I am making a game! See!' perspective, but terrible at actually giving us information about what we were seeing.
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ThtblovesDF

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Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarted!
« Reply #2756 on: November 22, 2017, 01:15:57 pm »

That which sleeps fans tend to be in the area of Paradox Fans - we like it complex, if you want to play pac-man, play pac-man. You can always add a nice introduction later, but you can't add a game later. But Josh sure is trying...
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birdy51

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Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarted!
« Reply #2757 on: November 22, 2017, 01:17:07 pm »

I think even if the game is a bit complicated, it still runs the chance of being a cult classic.  :P
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Cruxador

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Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarted!
« Reply #2758 on: November 22, 2017, 01:17:22 pm »

Yeah, I'm very curious to see what he comes up with for the next video.

And, in fact, I think I'll post on the kickstarter about some suggestions for what he does next. Maybe a nice basic overview video? This last one showing gameplay was good from a 'Look! I am making a game! See!' perspective, but terrible at actually giving us information about what we were seeing.
Honestly, I think that flaw in the video stems from a flaw in the individual. He doesn't seem super well suited to explaining in general.
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Mephansteras

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Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarted!
« Reply #2759 on: November 22, 2017, 01:20:56 pm »

Programmers are usually terrible at making videos. So I sent him a note giving him some suggestions on making the next set of videos tighter and more understandable for those of us who haven't been working on the game and therefore do not know it in depth the way he does.
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