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[nenjin]

I sort of expect betas to be messy. Especially in a data-driven game like this. I don't expect it to be playably awesome in beta, few games are.

However based on how things have been going, I may pass on the beta and just wait for release to dig into it. Whenever that will be. As a backer the money is already spent, so, no use throwing in the towel until the final game is actually out there.

[Cthulhu]

Messy sure, but given the current track record I have a bad feeling that after all our waiting the release will be unplayable, we'll get an "oops I fucked up X thing, will fix this weekend" reply, and nothing else.

[nenjin]

Messy sure, but given the current track record I have a bad feeling that after all our waiting the release will be unplayable, we'll get an "oops I fucked up X thing, will fix this weekend" reply, and nothing else.

To be fair you've labeled Josh a perfectionist before. One would hope that translates into a playable beta that isn't completely broken on release.

Because if he wasn't a perfectionist, for a game like this, that would be the likely result.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

I think that the best option would have been to complete the game as originally imagined and then keep adding on in a CKII-esque model.

[Xgamer4]

I think that the best option would have been to complete the game as originally imagined and then keep adding on in a CKII-esque model.

Eh, then they would've released one game, and updated its up something that looks nothing like the first release. I think they made the right call, but they really need to meet deadlines and either release something or give solid reasons why they aren't able to.

[ZebioLizard2]

I think that the best option would have been to complete the game as originally imagined and then keep adding on in a CKII-esque model.

From what was said, some of those extra's were dramatic changes that needed to be done in the beginning lest they couldn't be done at all.

[Cthulhu]

I think that the best option would have been to complete the game as originally imagined and then keep adding on in a CKII-esque model.

The issue is the additions they wanted to make wouldn't have been possible at all without dramatically changing the under-the-hood framework of the game.  Procedural generation required a change to a hex-based map instead of hand-drawn, endless mode required a breakup of the game flow which was originally pretty linear, etc.

[gimli]

I think that the best option would have been to complete the game as originally imagined and then keep adding on in a CKII-esque model.

Eh, that is the plan, isn't it? Example: They will add "endless mode" after the 1.0 release.

[sirvente]

That was the plan, then Josh started working on that stuff anyway. I disagree with Cthulhu above, I don't think Josh is a perfectionist, his approach seems to random and unpolished for that, I think he's one of those programmers who works on whatever strikes him at the moment and has to be held to a roadmap.

[Xgamer4]

To be fair, the reason he started work on them anyway was to lay the foundations. He knew that things like Endless Mode, and Procedural Generation, and others, would require massive architectural changes, and he wanted to get those out of the way so all public releases would be consistent, and so adding the features wouldn't be as bad.

That's a fair reason. The problem is that, by his own admission, he completed that architecture overhaul a few months ago.

[sirvente]

The problem is he said he wasn't going to do that until after the beta release and then he went and did it anyway. Getting back to square one would be difficult enough without him nailing more features onto it, and now he's mixing critical bugfixing with designing and tweaking features that he shouldn't be touching yet. Their old roadmap was quite sensible and I'm surprised they abandoned it.

[Shadowgandor]

I don't know. I feel these guys are looking at this game as the chance of a lifetime to build the game of their dreams and perhaps even reach a historic status, similar to games like Super Meatboy. They want to give everything they have, even moving away from the original roadmap if they feel this is for the better of the game.
Is it good business practice? Hell no. Could we end up with something epic after a long period of delays? Hell yes.

[sirvente]

Hell no. Josh's development style is so undisciplined that he performed a software migration on the master branch a few days before release and rendered the mod tools unfit for release. Abandoning the roadmap has opened up no possibilities that weren't there before and makes the negative ones more likely to happen.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

All of this is true, however I say that we give it a little more time. I do believe that they pop by to read this thread every once in a blue moon. Let's not discourage them further, hm?

[Cthulhu]

Josh hasn't logged onto his own site in ten days.  I wouldn't be worried.