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[ChairmanPoo]

I dont plan to get involved in kickstarters ever again. The KS system makes the risk of a bust  too great IMO.

The funny thing is that before getting involved in those two I disliked kickstarter as a concept quite a bit... because in practice you have all the disadvantages of being the capitalist partner of whatever you're backing (you provide the cash upfront and it's very much at risk) with none of the advantages (you don't really get a share for your investment)

[i2amroy]

As a person who has helped kickstart several games before, I can tell you that "kickstart with hype, then wait a year or more" is extremely common in most kickstarters, even with ones backed by professional game companies. For example both Mighty No. 9 and the new Shantae game went through the exact same process. It's very normal to have to wait for quite a while, and yeah, you shouldn't be planning to be hyped all of the way from the kickstarter to release as such. Rather the advantage of most games like this in the kickstarter is that (should you choose to do so) you can help provide feedback and game creation advice as the game is in progress (either by voting on character designs, level ideas, etc.), instead of just getting the finished product as-is.

From my experiences there's nothing wrong with kickstarting things, but it is important to remember that this isn't a pre-order. Games (even professionally developed ones, as I've pointed out) might take a couple of years since the kickstarter before they are actually released, and there's no sane way that you are going to be able to maintain hype all of the way through like you can do with a 1 month pre-order. Instead your goal should be to be hyped with the kickstarter, let it die down (unless you are helping to contribute to the game design, which is always fun), and then get hyped again when it actually gets released and you get a chance to play it.

[nenjin]

Yeah, having backed a dozen or so Kickstarters now, this delay doesn't really concern me. I long ago stopped paying attention to release times they've stated. More because *I've* lost the thread of how all this stuff works a long time ago. There is so much to the game, and so many ideas bouncing around, that they've never actually, really, sat down and shown what 30 mins of gameplay looks like. Map makers and mod tools are all well and good, but putting out the mod tools before a playable beta has always seemed like putting the cart before the horse, to me.

I'm not worried that it won't get finished, and I'm always happy to see really competent devs who can grow an idea instead of just executing the bare basics (which is where I feel like a lot of Kickstarters end up.) But at times it does seem like there's a lack of...urgency? to stick to stated objectives at KDG.

[Darkmere]

they've never actually, really, sat down and shown what 30 mins of gameplay looks like.

This is what I couldn't really put my finger on before. Tons of nebulous ideas and I have no idea between all the races and politics and screenshots and concept art and new systems and and and... how the game actually works.

[Xgamer4]

Another thing I've never admitted is sometimes I wish the kickstarter hadn't been so successful.  Did we need procedural gen and endless mode and all these other features they had to redesign the engine to prepare for?  If it'd been a modest success the game would probably already be out.

I think this is a big part of it. It's pretty par for the course of Kickstarted games, admittedy, but this is pretty much it. And the massive wait doesn't really come as a surprise for the serial kickstarter backers (I've been calling a significant wait, way beyond the listed date, literally since kickstarter completion - nothing out of the ordinary is happening).

Related to this, they apparently ran into problems where they needed to "redo the data structures", was I believe how they phrased it. Which translates, roughly, into "our foundation wasn't up to supporting everything we needed to do, so we had to tear it out and start anew". I'm not particularly worried about that - it's completely understandable, given the scope creep from stretch goals. And the fact they actually made it through the massive refactor, period, let alone as quickly as they did means I'm not terribly worried about whether they'll complete it or not. It also explains the lack of videos, too - it's likely the game barely even compiled for a good chunk of that time, let alone actually being playable to the extent its worth showing off.

I do agree that it doesn't feel like they're treating it with any real sense of urgency, though, and I would love to actually see gameplay videos. I'm still excited, but the bulk of that excitement has definitely cooled off - I barely even check the official forums anymore, and don't even really read through the dev threads when I do.

[Cthulhu]

I'm just like "wonder what'll happen between now and thursday to push it back again?"

The recent unity update broke some things.  So it's not out yet.  He said he'd try for today.  I'm kind of expecting a weekend release though.  If it refuses to work he'll cut out the map part and patch it back in later when it's started working again.

So we'll see.  If it's not out by Monday I'm probably going to take a mental break from the game for a while. 

In keeping with the general lack of urgency, I say if it's not out today they're probably going to get bogged down by fixing the problems again and the moment will pass.  There's not much left that cna reasonably hold back release though, so I'm hopeful.

EDIT:  It's compiling!

[lordcooper]

It's a bit shit that they seem to limit almost all communication to people who've bought in.  I can't see that driving many new sales.

[dennislp3]

I think thats just an early access thing...it serves a few purposes...primarily it serves the purpose of giving early buyers an actual benefit to early support. I think it boils down to "people wanting free stuff for no reason". There is little to drive new sales due to delays and what not...you drive sales with a real product...not a partially done product you cant test.

buy in to show support and get the latest news...otherwise deal with the fact that you just have to wait

[lordcooper]

"people wanting free stuff for no reason"

Their homepage has links to a devlog last updated in 2014, and any actual information on the forums is in buyer only subs.  It's pretty hard to know whether or not I should support something with so little information.  I don't want stuff, I want to know about stuff.  And it's not for no reason, it's so I can judge whether or not to send some money their way.  This is a ridiculous way of operating; if you're expecting money for an unfinished/unreleased product then it's in your own interest not to put information on that product behind a paywall.  Unless your product is bad, I suppose.

[Neonivek]

Unless your product is bad, I suppose.

Which is kind of the thing... That tends to be the message you send out in this situation.

That either your product is bad or you hit development hell.

Which might not be true, but... if you are going to emulate bad games... don't be surprised if people unconsciously latch onto it.

[Darkmere]

If it weren't for the people here relaying some of the pay-only information I would have completely forgotten about this game about a week after the kickstarter ended, because for all I'd know it could have been abandoned.

I'm fine with contests, or behind-the-scenes stuff, early access to tools, early play, all that going to backers... but "this game isn't dead"-level of information really should be public access.

[ChairmanPoo]

To be fair they do publish updates on their kickstarter page.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/kingdinosaurgames/that-which-sleeps

PD: and in twitter  https://twitter.com/kingdinogames

PPD: and in steam Early access: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=316173232

[ventuswings]

I mean, if they are letting people buy beta rights after it is released, the information silence isn't that concerning because one can always check out LP before making the decision to purchase. Perhaps they are deliberately keeping the hype down until they have something concrete to show to public.

On the deadline thing, besides being a typical kickstarter project, I'm surprised many people did not see delays coming considering how planned dev videos were consistently late with some never being released. Regardless of their merits as game developer, seems like they have unfortunate tendency to miss deadlines due to not having concrete work management.

Hope mod tools get quickly compiled.

[Cthulhu]

Bad news!  Continual bad news.  Murphy's law's a bitch.

They are deliberately keeping hype down until they have something concrete.  The lesson from the kickstarter is that releasing unfinished stuff for hype is actually harmful.  They lost pledges when videos were released.

The unity update has caused a lot of problems, acknowledged on unity's side as well.  They're going to need to completely roll back the update and release like that, which is taking a while.

Why they didn't just back up the pre-update build I have no idea, and I'm a little disappointed on that front.

So it's not out.  I'm holding out hope for a monday release.  After that it's whatever, I'll let the hype simmer down and focus on other things.

[Retropunch]

If it weren't for the people here relaying some of the pay-only information I would have completely forgotten about this game about a week after the kickstarter ended, because for all I'd know it could have been abandoned.

I'm fine with contests, or behind-the-scenes stuff, early access to tools, early play, all that going to backers... but "this game isn't dead"-level of information really should be public access.

I am so confused by the 'backers only updates' system that seems to be so prevalent. I just don't understand it - why would you want people NOT to know about your game?! Fair enough, keep some background posts just for backers, but so many games only use the backers area for their updates that the project just looks dead if you're not a backer.