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Author Topic: The Let's go back to Iraq, now without WMDs Thread. About the IS(IS) threat.  (Read 207663 times)

smjjames

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Re: The Let's go back to Iraq, now without WMDs Thread. About the IS(IS) threat.
« Reply #1530 on: December 11, 2016, 06:26:54 pm »
Quote from: Strife26 on December 11, 2016, 06:14:47 pm
So we should just be using a ball peen hammer and duct tape?

FIFY lol

Joking aside, our main method of nation building seems to be to use the military to shake things up, then we set things up, then leave. Which is what I was sort of going with for the metaphor. We can still help with nation building in various ways, but we just have to let them do it on their own terms rather than ours.
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Strife26

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Re: The Let's go back to Iraq, now without WMDs Thread. About the IS(IS) threat.
« Reply #1531 on: December 11, 2016, 06:33:00 pm »
Duct tape would imply considerably more dedication and support than the world is currently giving to Iraq or Syria, I'd say and the Middle East's own terms don't seem to be particularly positive prospects in my mind.
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Baffler

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Re: The Let's go back to Iraq, now without WMDs Thread. About the IS(IS) threat.
« Reply #1532 on: December 11, 2016, 06:38:21 pm »
Quote from: Vilanat on December 11, 2016, 06:03:41 pm
The irony is that in Syria it is actually the mercenaries that are holding grounds, winning back Aleppo and are basically the main fighting force against Rebels/Jihadists/ISIS. even in Palmyra, a Druze para-military unit was the one suffering most casualties because they stayed defending while the Army ran away.

Not really. The Tiger Forces and Desert Hawks units, the 4th Armored Division, the Republican Guard, and the Syrian Marines have all played massive roles in the fighting, and they're all part of the regular military. The only paramilitaries doing serious fighting for the government that I know of are proxy support from Iran (Hezbollah and small numbers of IRGC,) and the NDF (who incidentally made up the majority of government aligned forces at Palmyra) who do garrison duty and other such things and can't really be relied on for much beyond that.
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smjjames

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Re: The Let's go back to Iraq, now without WMDs Thread. About the IS(IS) threat.
« Reply #1533 on: December 11, 2016, 06:44:05 pm »
I was trying to make a joke because 'duct tape fixes everything', but nvm.

By 'their own terms', I meant have them dictate what they want instead of us mostly dictating the terms and have them solve their problems instead of us trying to completely solve it for them. Western meddling in the region is partly what got us to the current situation (among a host of other reasons).

I agree that letting the MidEast settle things on their own terms doesn't look entirely positive so far, but directly intervening haven't had entirely positive results historically either.
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Sheb

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Re: The Let's go back to Iraq, now without WMDs Thread. About the IS(IS) threat.
« Reply #1534 on: December 12, 2016, 03:13:33 am »
Quote from: smjjames on December 11, 2016, 06:44:05 pm
I meant have them dictate what they want instead of us mostly dictating the terms and have them solve their problems instead of us trying to completely solve it for them.


Who is them? ISIS? The Assad regime? The various non-ISIS rebels? Iran? Saudi Arabia? The Iraqi government? The Kurds? The Turks? Because they each have different things they want, and as for "solving their problem", it's what they're trying to do now, by killing each others.
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: The Let's go back to Iraq, now without WMDs Thread. About the IS(IS) threat.
« Reply #1535 on: December 12, 2016, 05:37:56 am »

interesting tweets there

Spoiler: And the most interesting part (click to show/hide)

Yes, you may call me a fan of conspiracy theories but I am relatively sure that Russia give away Palmyra willingly. It just more likely than ridiculously high level of incompetence
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Sheb

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Re: The Let's go back to Iraq, now without WMDs Thread. About the IS(IS) threat.
« Reply #1536 on: December 12, 2016, 06:33:44 am »
What kind of ground forces did Russia have anyway? My understanding was that they only had some artillery units, it's strange they were manning checkpoints at all.
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martinuzz

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Re: The Let's go back to Iraq, now without WMDs Thread. About the IS(IS) threat.
« Reply #1537 on: December 12, 2016, 06:41:24 am »
Probably Syrians taught to speak Russian, after which they automatically became a Russian speaking Russian minority
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Sergarr

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Re: The Let's go back to Iraq, now without WMDs Thread. About the IS(IS) threat.
« Reply #1538 on: December 12, 2016, 06:42:21 am »
Quote from: Sheb on December 12, 2016, 06:33:44 am
What kind of ground forces did Russia have anyway? My understanding was that they only had some artillery units, it's strange they were manning checkpoints at all.
There are also small special operations groups, whose existence has been officially revealed a few days back. But I don't think they're used to hold checkpoints. In fact, I'm pretty sure this is the first time I've ever heard of Russia having such checkpoints anywhere in Syria, outside of base defence forces, and Palmyra was not a Russian base of operations.

There's somewhat of a tradition in SAA to blame other people for their problems, anyway.
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: The Let's go back to Iraq, now without WMDs Thread. About the IS(IS) threat.
« Reply #1539 on: December 12, 2016, 07:24:27 am »
Quote from: Sheb on December 12, 2016, 06:33:44 am
What kind of ground forces did Russia have anyway? My understanding was that they only had some artillery units, it's strange they were manning checkpoints at all.
At the very least there are those "Wagner" guys
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

smjjames

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Re: The Let's go back to Iraq, now without WMDs Thread. About the IS(IS) threat.
« Reply #1540 on: December 13, 2016, 12:03:02 pm »
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BorkBorkGoesTheCode

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Re: The Let's go back to Iraq, now without WMDs Thread. About the IS(IS) threat.
« Reply #1541 on: December 13, 2016, 12:15:28 pm »
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smjjames

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Re: The Let's go back to Iraq, now without WMDs Thread. About the IS(IS) threat.
« Reply #1542 on: December 13, 2016, 12:24:37 pm »
Yeah, I know it's not realistic that he'll ever be tried for warcrimes, the UN has no jurdicision over it and the international criminal court barely does it's job and international law on warcrimes is regularily flaunted anyway.
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martinuzz

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Re: The Let's go back to Iraq, now without WMDs Thread. About the IS(IS) threat.
« Reply #1543 on: December 13, 2016, 12:26:32 pm »
Quote from: smjjames on December 13, 2016, 12:03:02 pm
Not sure if it's full fledged genocide in the most technical term, but yeah, mass murder of civillians is happening in Aleppo by pro-government forces...
War crimes tribunal for Assad and co. when?
It is planned for august 2173
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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

BorkBorkGoesTheCode

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Re: The Let's go back to Iraq, now without WMDs Thread. About the IS(IS) threat.
« Reply #1544 on: December 13, 2016, 12:28:56 pm »
What sphere of influence does Assad fall into currently?
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