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Author Topic: The Let's go back to Iraq, now without WMDs Thread. About the IS(IS) threat.  (Read 203358 times)

miljan

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There is a difference between the FSA, and Al nusra/ISIS.

The Kurds didn't "move to attack government forces", Assad, directed by Iran, moved to attack the kurds because Iran doesn't want a Kurdistan since historic Kurdistan also happens to partially be in Iran and Iraq (which Iran now fully controls). that is also why Turkey recently declared that Syria should not be partitioned.

No there is not any difference in reality. Al nusra is part of FSA, they will constantly exchange manpower and equipment, and they often work together as they did multiple times, hack last time it is right now in aleppo. Al nusra is one of the most biggest and most professional forces that will openly co operate and work together with all the parts of FSA and with in it.

Not correct about kurds. SAA is in deep shit in aleppo, and they do not have any manpower to start a new front. Iran has nothing to do with this as iran kurds are  highly assimilated and they dont have problem with them for a long time.
Kurds after finishing the offensive and knowing that SAA is tied with the FSA and al nusra offensive in aleppo are using the opportunity to invade the areas that are controlled by local militia loyal to syrian government. This offensive is only beneficial to kurds and saying that iran will push syria to make a new front is simply not correct
« Last Edit: August 22, 2016, 04:39:40 am by miljan »
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martinuzz

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a long time before russia intervened directly to try and fix the bullshit usa and their allies started. 

how exactly is helping Assad bomb hospitals (okay admittedly coalition forces have hit a hospital or two as well), using chemical attacks on civilians and starving whole cities with siege blokades 'fixing bullshit' ?
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Erkki

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Russia trying to fix things? All they're there for is collecting political points and preventing Assad from losing.

Even in their own media they're showing Tupolevs dropping dozens of iron bombs or clusters right onto urban areas. Unlike year ago, they now dont even bother pretending to the strike just the rebels.

Each side and every faction talks big words about how the killing has to stop, yet every 6 months we have a new player in the game that in reality nobody wants stop yet.

No there is not any difference in reality. Al nusra is part of FSA, they will constantly exchange manpower and equipment, and they often work together as they did multiple times, hack last time it is right now in aleppo. Al nusra is one of the most biggest and most professional forces that will openly co operate and work together with all the parts of FSA and with in it.

Not correct about kurds. SAA is in deep shit in aleppo, and they do not have any manpower to start a new front. Iran has nothing to do with this as iran kurds are  highly assimilated and they dont have problem with them for a long time.
Kurds after finishing the offensive and knowing that SAA is tied with the FSA and al nusra offensive in aleppo are using the opportunity to invade the areas that are controlled by local militia loyal to syrian government. This offensive is only beneficial to kurds and saying that iran will push syria to make a new front is simply not correct

"FSA" is now indeed mostly just the former al-Nusra and its minions while Kurds have interests of their own... Iran mainly uses advisors, its infrastructure(air bases) and Hezbollah that fights alongside the SAA.

Yeah, the rebels are able to continue fighting and push the SAA back and still have even tanks left, that should tell something about how effective the Russian intervention has been... Or at least about how weak the SAA actually is.
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miljan

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a long time before russia intervened directly to try and fix the bullshit usa and their allies started. 

how exactly is helping Assad bomb hospitals (okay admittedly coalition forces have hit a hospital or two as well), using chemical attacks on civilians and starving whole cities with siege blokades 'fixing bullshit' ?
When you have important generals hiding in school and basements of hospitals or are using infrastructure around hospital on purpose, when they are using ambulance vehicles for transport of troops and similar, expect to be hit a lot. Chemical weapons are constantly used by rebels that US supports, so don't see any difference there. People in a war will use what ever they have to survive. There is no starvation or blockade of whole cities, as there is constant transport of food and help booth from russia and SAA (normally you will not see anything of that on your west propaganda, or very short news) if the roads are open. But when rebels invade a city and stop anything from entering and start stealing food and similar for their forces, you will see this happening, or when simply the fighting is going on and nothing can enter or exit. Rebels should stop using civilians as their human shield, but they normally will not do that.

Now to talk more real Russian is helping in direct arment of SAA troops, training, air raids on terrorist groups, supply routes and similar. They do also a lot of the same shit as USA does, so there is no excuses there, but one important thing is unlike USA, that invaded other countries, russia went to defend a counter from foreign backed invasion. A core difference. Not saying russia are great, or SAA are great, I mean they did a lot of shit, use imprecise and old weapons that do kill a lot of civilians and similar. But you fight with what you have.


Yeah, the rebels are able to continue fighting and push the SAA back and still have even tanks left, that should tell something about how effective the Russian intervention has been... Or at least about how weak the SAA actually is.

No, the thing that shows is how good outside support the rebels have, and how fanatic fighters they have when they run with their suicide bombers. And the thing that shows how good the russia intervention has been so far, is the fact that from the start of direct russian air support the SAA stopped losing the territory and started advancing. So that fact shows the russian are doing a good job so far, even with the limited air power they have in syria.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2016, 05:28:07 am by miljan »
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Vilanat

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Iran has no problem with its Kurds?!
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miljan

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Iran has no problem with its Kurds?!
No. They have problems with kurds from iraq as that country went to shit, and there are fighting on the border here and there,  iran kurds not anymore.
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Erkki

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No, the thing that shows is how good outside support the rebels have, and how fanatic fighters they have when they run with their suicide bombers. And the thing that shows how good the russia intervention has been so far, is the fact that from the start of direct russian air support the SAA stopped losing the territory and started advancing. So that fact shows the russian are doing a good job so far, even with the limited air power they have in syria.

Initially yes. But there IMHO should be no excuses to losing operational tanks intact to them too...

I dont symphatize with private corporations or politicians all over the globe making money with the weapons delivered to Syria via Saudis, Iraq or Turkey, and extending the war, and making business with the refugees, frankly they disgust me. Same thing with Saudi Wahhabism and US indirectly supporting both sides of the war. They should have rather intervened directly or leave the whole mess to resolve on its own and I'm pretty sure Obama would agree now. May have been cheaper too.

War in Syria may have major external participants but it certainly did not start out as an invasion, and Russia unlike USA has annexed parts of other, sovereign nations during the past hundred years. Now excuse me but I do have a risk of getting to personally fight Russia with a rifle in hand in my lifetime when they come to liberate us from imperialists\fascists\NATO\whatever.
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Vilanat

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Iran has no problem with its Kurds?!
No. They have problems with kurds from iraq as that country went to shit, and there are fighting on the border here and there,  iran kurds not anymore.

Right.

http://rudaw.net/english/middleeast/iran/02072016?keyword=hijri
http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2016/06/28/472562/Iran-IRGC-Kurdistan-Hossein-Rajabi
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miljan

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No, the thing that shows is how good outside support the rebels have, and how fanatic fighters they have when they run with their suicide bombers. And the thing that shows how good the russia intervention has been so far, is the fact that from the start of direct russian air support the SAA stopped losing the territory and started advancing. So that fact shows the russian are doing a good job so far, even with the limited air power they have in syria.

Initially yes. But there IMHO should be no excuses to losing operational tanks intact to them too...

I dont symphatize with private corporations or politicians all over the globe making money with the weapons delivered to Syria via Saudis, Iraq or Turkey, and extending the war, and making business with the refugees, frankly they disgust me. Same thing with Saudi Wahhabism and US indirectly supporting both sides of the war. They should have rather intervened directly or leave the whole mess to resolve on its own and I'm pretty sure Obama would agree now. May have been cheaper too.

War in Syria may have major external participants but it certainly did not start out as an invasion, and Russia unlike USA has annexed parts of other, sovereign nations during the past hundred years. Now excuse me but I do have a risk of getting to personally fight Russia with a rifle in hand in my lifetime when they come to liberate us from imperialists\fascists\NATO\whatever.

I agree that russia did also shit things. But in your example  russia annexed part of a territory that wanted to join it, and second that was illegally put under ukraine and was not part of it. So they got back their territory that was illegally removed after the chaos that was fall of soviet union. Not saying its ok, but its a fucking a lot different than USA invaded a country thousand kilometers away, destroyed its government, putting  a puppet, privatized things that were of interest to them, killing and destroying lives directly and indirectly of million people for decades to come. And the sad thing is they are constantly doing this for the last two decades. While russia is doing one thing, making sure its borders are under its influence as much as they can.
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Erkki

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  russia annexed part of a territory that wanted to join it, and second that was illegally put under ukraine and was not part of it. So they got back their territory that was illegally removed after the chaos that was fall of soviet union.

Please read that again...  ::) :-\

To me, USA is a democracy that does shit in an attempt to protect its interests and when that is not just and includes unnecessary violence it needs to be condemned, but in Russia, pretty much everything that isnt piss IS shit.

Sorry, in a very bad mood right now due to health reasons but in my very humble opinion the world needs less understanding towards dictators and murderers.
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miljan

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Iran has no problem with its Kurds?!
No. They have problems with kurds from iraq as that country went to shit, and there are fighting on the border here and there,  iran kurds not anymore.

Right.

http://rudaw.net/english/middleeast/iran/02072016?keyword=hijri
http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2016/06/28/472562/Iran-IRGC-Kurdistan-Hossein-Rajabi
As I said they have problems with kurds from iraq, as one of those links confirm where they followed the 11 persons that entered the country. Also you should know that for the first article KDPI is a exalted organisation that doesn't have a support of iran kurds, and are located in iraq, from where most of them are coming and from where the clashes are as I said in my post.. 

  russia annexed part of a territory that wanted to join it, and second that was illegally put under ukraine and was not part of it. So they got back their territory that was illegally removed after the chaos that was fall of soviet union.

Please read that again...  ::) :-\

To me, USA is a democracy that does shit in an attempt to protect its interests and when that is not just and includes unnecessary violence it needs to be condemned, but in Russia, pretty much everything that isnt piss IS shit.

Sorry, in a very bad mood right now due to health reasons but in my very humble opinion the world needs less understanding towards dictators and murderers.
Sorry I consider USA a democracy just in name, nothing more. USA attempting to protect their interest several thoughts kilometers away?  They are one of the worst and most aggressive countries in the world that has ton of blood on their hands, and worst type of murders that hide behind word democracy and crap like that. Russia is doing same shit but on much lower scale and in places where its close to them in their region of influence. Its now first time they moved away from their borders to syria to help the government. I do not like when people pretend annexing a territory where population wanted to join russia is same shit as invading, bombing and killing for the last 20 years that USA did. Not even close. You better take examples of russian involvement in east  ukraine and georgia, as they  a lot more better examples that are on level of USA crap than peaceful annexation of territory that always wanted to be independent and join russia.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2016, 06:28:34 am by miljan »
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DJ

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Outright annexing territories is like 19th century BS though. At least have the common decency to set up a puppet regime. Also whether or not they wanted to join Russia is kinda hard to tell, seeing how quick and unmonitored the referendum was. Should've waited a year at least.
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Strife26

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The shitshow clusterfuck that is the modern middle east is primarily the fault of Charlemagne.

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miljan

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Outright annexing territories is like 19th century BS though. At least have the common decency to set up a puppet regime. Also whether or not they wanted to join Russia is kinda hard to tell, seeing how quick and unmonitored the referendum was. Should've waited a year at least.

They where few times referendums on crimea to declare their independent, a long time before russian annexation. But normally ukraine stopped it, and in turn tried to give it more autonomy. And I will always consider invading foreign countries on force a lot more 19th century than what russia did with crimea.
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martinuzz

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Are you saying that the Crimea was annexed without the use of force? Really?
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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479
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