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[MetalSlimeHunt]

Exactly. The US is huge, relatively accepting of violence for a western nation, has a variety of terrain that would be hellish to navigate under warlike conditions (every mountain, swamp, deep forest, and canyon), is chalk full of guns, is chalk full of people who can make guns and ammo with junk in their garage, is full of vehicles, has plenty of people who would not even consider peaceable relations towards each other if not for that being the societal norm (and certainly wouldn't accept the ones they disagree with having statelike power over them). As long as the rule of law holds and we remain united, yes, the US is stable. However, if you reach the point where a war actually breaks America, doesn't cause a change of government or anything like that but truly severs the social institutions that people live off of, then the result would be a nearly unparalleled nightmare.

I mean, look at the rift the Civil War left. It still hasn't healed, and that was only two factions fighting for a few years with far inferior weapons technology over a century ago. The cycle of violence would have rpm.

[Baffler]

When you put it that way, it makes a lot more sense that such huge effort is expended toward encouraging patriotism and crushing calls for change to the system (looking at OWS and the various reactionary groups that tend to burn brightly for a little while, then disappear.)

[BlindKitty]

Well, as far es EU invading USA goes, in Hearts of Iron 2, as united Europe (well, united under German rule, but whatever), there was one relatively sensible way - take the Caribbean and go up from there. That said, without prior nuclear bombardment of all major cities AND huge, huge occupying force, I just don't see the occupation happen...

[10ebbor10]

The other option would be to hope for a friendly Canada, and attack from there.

[Loud Whispers]

Simply give the order to attack

There's only over 65,000 Murrican troops in Europe, not nearly enough. Even in Germany they'd be outnumbered nearly 9 to 1, and that's where a third of them are stationed.

How would an allied European force go about launching an invasion of the U.S.?

Invade from the Bermuda Islands, French Guiana and pray and hope that Obama causes half of America to join the invaders.

I could make some rules of this if you guys wanna forum wargame this.  I'm thinking 5 players, one US, four Euro, thus capturing the fractured problem Europe faces.

Funny you mention that, I thought 5 Euros was the number too
North sea Islands +Scandi peninsula, Iberian & French Peninsula (w/ Netherlands and Belgium), central Europe, Mediterranean Europe and Eastern Europe vs USA. Could maybe divide the American team into various generals so if one disappears for any reason command of the American invasion doesn't immediately fall apart.

[martinuzz]

Cut all American forces by two thirds. Those need to stay at home to prevent South America moving in.

[Loud Whispers]

Cut all American forces by two thirds. Those need to stay at home to prevent South America moving in.

Some of the South America militaries are nice nice and well but how would they even get to the USA?

[martinuzz]

Cut all American forces by two thirds. Those need to stay at home to prevent South America moving in.

Some of the South America militaries are nice nice and well but how would they even get to the USA?

I would start with an army of bulldozers, and fill in a few miles of Panama canal.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

You think South America will commit economic suicide just to attack the US?

[martinuzz]

China could still reach their west coast just fine. 

[GavJ]

That's an advantage I should add to the Europeans, the American's bad geography
There are a lot of mountains in Europe, really only the southern English, northern French, Belgium, Dutch and northern German countryside are that flat.

Right, exactly - their entire economic core is on conveniently landable gently sloping beaches facing the US.

Not exactly a lot of big factories in the alps, last I checked.

[LordBucket]

Simply give the order to attack

There's only over 65,000 Murrican troops in Europe, not nearly enough. Even in Germany they'd be outnumbered nearly 9 to 1, and that's where a third of them are stationed.

Few of those are infantry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Air_Forces_in_Europe

A US first strike would be able to do devastating amounts of damage. It is, for example, 72 miles from Fairford to London. That's 8 minutes for B-2 bomber at nominal cruising speed.

And when you do get around to trying to repel them, remember that you're defend against...not an outside invading force, but rather an enemy that is heavily entrenched with roughly 100 established, fortified military installations inside your countr(ies). Many of which are over 60 years old, and supplied with years worth of food and fuel. Worse, many of those installations are used by militaries from both sides.

For example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Royal_Air_Force_stations

"Royal Airforce" as in British military. From that link:

RAF Stations occupied by the United States Air Force
 * RAF Alconbury   Cambridgeshire   Occupied by the United States Air Force as an accommodation unit for personnel at RAF Molesworth.
 * RAF Barford St John   Oxfordshire   Occupied by the United States Air Force as a communications station.
 * RAF Croughton   Northamptonshire   Occupied by the United States Air Force as a communications station.
 * RAF Fairford   Gloucestershire   Occupied by the United States Air Force.
 * RAF Feltwell   Norfolk   United States Air Force support use.
 * RAF Lakenheath   Suffolk   Occupied by the United States Air Force.
 * RAF Menwith Hill   North Yorkshire   joint UK/US intelligence and communication site.
 * RAF Mildenhall   Suffolk   Occupied by the United States Air Force.
 * RAF Molesworth   Cambridgeshire   Occupied by the United States Air Force.
 * RAF Welford   Berkshire   Occupied by the United States Air Force.

The enemy already occupies a large potion of your own military bases inside your own country. Do you bomb your own installations? Meanwhile, as you deal with the enemy within, your opponent himself is ~3600 miles away across an ocean. And no doubt bringing in reinforcements while you deal with the internal situation. A US fleet approaches from the west. Do you engage to attempt to stop them from landing, or do you deal with the 100-some bases that have already "landed?"

Tactically, logistically...the US has a crazy huge advantage out the gate.

[Guardian G.I.]

posting to watch

[martinuzz]

Right, exactly - their entire economic core is on conveniently landable gently sloping beaches facing the US.

Indeed, we poor Dutch would be so screwed. Major port at Rotterdam, major NATO airfield at Eindhoven, within 2 hours driving from a nice sandy beach.
They'd have to attack in winter though, cause when it's nice weather, our coastline is protected by hordes of Germans dug in at the coast. Fear their mighty sandcastles! 

We would have quite a few nukes though, following the thread assumption that we confiscated those. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkel_Air_Base
It's pretty funny. Dutch government always kept denying the base held nukes, until very recently a former prime minister had a slip of tongue in an interview.
 

[MonkeyHead]

The way the balance of forces stands, the only sensible way the conflict would unfold to me is the EU turtling up, forcing the US to expend huge numbers of men and materiel (all of which are at the end of a pretty long supply line compared to the EU forces, fighting on home turf) for every metre of territory, falling back to any number of natural defensible lines along any number of rivers or mountain ranges, regardless of if the US landed in Spain, France, the Med or further North, looking to forcing the US to fight from carrier groups and whatever territory it can somehow hold - I could see the UK being a focus for any US effort in that regard. Let us not forget that it took the largest military operation ever that was years in the planning in the shape of D-Day for the combined might of the Allies to begin to displace the outnumbered, out-gunned Germans who were pretty much fighting on their own when the Allied forces already had clear air and naval superiority and their enemy was fighting a losing battle on a number of other major fronts, and it took months to push the Germans slowly and steadily back. I could not see the US being able to fight any kind of successful campaign of this magnitude on its own against an enemy who could fight from a position of overall near-parity. Also, look at how much of a cluster fuck the occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq were? Could you honestly see a US occupation of the UK being anything other than a horrible fucking bloodbath? As for the EU invading the US.... nah, the logistical nightmare of different nation states, different equipment, languages, combat protocols and so on make that an impossibility when stacked up against the geography of the US and its unity, unless somehow we got Russia, Canada and Mexico on side, or maybe China (not that China would touch such a conflict with a ten foot automatic electrified touching pole).