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Author Topic: Armchair General General - /AGG  (Read 137194 times)

Strife26

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1080 on: December 22, 2016, 07:58:17 pm »

Nah, the bit about Canada is inaccurate. Toeing against the Commonwealth should be absolutely the last thing that the US does to take over the world. Back the allies to the hilt, occupy Mexico and the Pacific, then forment crisis with Russia or China. Probably Russia, because that allows European support to be utilized to the maximum. It's not ideal, because China is the larger long term threat, but for the context of the hypothetical, China's long game doesn't mean much.
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Tack

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1081 on: December 23, 2016, 12:58:29 am »

Doesn't china currently have the highest manpower military in the world currently?

Also lol @ the commonwealth having any real power any more.
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misko27

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1082 on: December 23, 2016, 01:03:56 am »

If the entire world declared war on the US, the loss of income for McDonalds alone will bankrupt the US within days.
Nonsense! The domestic sphere will simply grow to supply the new demand. Just repeal everything Michelle Obama has ever gotten her hands on and McDonalds will come roaring back to life with McSquareMeals.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2016, 01:14:27 am by misko27 »
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Erkki

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1083 on: December 23, 2016, 01:04:55 am »

Doesn't china currently have the highest manpower military in the world currently?

Also lol @ the commonwealth having any real power any more.

I dunno, UK does have a large navy and will soon have 2 proper carriers, and they have fair number of both SSBNs and attack subs, as well as fairly large and modern air force. Tranche 3 Typhoons are right now very likely 2nd best fighters in the world, after F-22. Canada and Australia, that also has a great navy, put together are about the same strength, just without nukes. All Commonwealth countries have relatively weak armies, though.
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Tack

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1084 on: December 23, 2016, 01:27:53 am »

If the entire world declared war on the US, the loss of income for McDonalds alone will bankrupt the US within days.
Nonsense! The domestic sphere will simply grow to supply the new demand. Just repeal everything Michelle Obama has ever gotten her hands on and McDonalds will come roaring back to life with McSquareMeals.
#McRationPack
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1085 on: December 23, 2016, 05:09:49 am »

Nah, the bit about Canada is inaccurate. Toeing against the Commonwealth should be absolutely the last thing that the US does to take over the world. Back the allies to the hilt, occupy Mexico and the Pacific, then forment crisis with Russia or China. Probably Russia, because that allows European support to be utilized to the maximum. It's not ideal, because China is the larger long term threat, but for the context of the hypothetical, China's long game doesn't mean much.
Nothing about that really contradicts my version. As I said, it wouldn't be moving with hostility against Canada, it would be (further) drowning them in our influence. I'd say to combine it with spinning Quebec off, but they'll get pissed off enough to do it themselves and split Canada into two more easily digestible sides.

The ideal is to try to rewind to the mid-90's level of supremacy and then not be satisfied with it. Then just entangle Russia and India ideologically while entangling China economically and culturally. At that point further resistance will prove inadequate and it's just a matter of time.
Doesn't china currently have the highest manpower military in the world currently?
WrONG !!! American Pig-Dog! Manpower supremacy belongs to the almighty People's Revolution of solider workers artists and GREAT GENERAL KIM JONG-UN

lies of capitalisyt world order to destroy kroean people and instal imperaly southernore regime!

PEOPLE'S DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF KOREA NUMBER ONE america number seven imperalism snow eater
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Bumber

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1086 on: December 23, 2016, 05:16:57 am »

If the entire world declared war on the US, the loss of income for McDonalds alone will bankrupt the US within days.
On the other hand the US would declare all foreign debts null, which could probably bankrupt several countries.
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Taricus

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1087 on: December 23, 2016, 11:58:02 am »

Given the wartime situation that's unlikely to be too much of a concern during the war. Could lead to some nastiness in the treaty on it's conclusion though.
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Erkki

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1088 on: December 23, 2016, 01:09:42 pm »

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Loud Whispers

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1089 on: December 23, 2016, 04:38:48 pm »

N a h.
I mean, the logistics of attacking USA and getting away with it and whatnot aside, you don't neccessarily need aircraft carriers.
Fair point, but I should have been more specific in my phrasing. Launching a trans-atlantic or trans-pacific invasion of the USA is extremely different from attacking the USA, without naval supremacy there is not going to be any reinforcement possible to Canadian or Mexican forces. Germans could attack Britain in WWII, but invasion was impossible until the Royal Navy & Royal Air Force was destroyed - with the US commanding the largest and most modern navies and air forces in the world, with the home advantage, the rest of the world would have to heavily militarize and the destruction of the nations' navies mentioned before would terminate much potential for any reinforcement of Canada or Mexico. The armed civilian populace and paramilitary police of the USA are a formidable enough obstacle before you factor in the US army, Canada and Mexico would not have good chances alone.

Thinking on that, how would Canada and Mexico ensure the best chances of victory against the USA? I reckon defeating any US invasions and ensuring they're not knocked out of the war immediately would count as a high priority objective, though I'm not sure how they could go about it

"Superior training and superior weaponry have, when taken together, a geometric effect on overall military strength. Well-trained, well-equipped troops can stand up to many more times their lesser brethren than linear arithmetic would seem to indicate." - Spartan Battle Manual, Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri
Naturally, the Spartans were usually one of the first two factions to get wiped out in virtually all of my SMAC games.
I've found the Spartans NEED warfare, and ironically, a good series of defeats to keep themselves competitive. Without a strong enemy capable of destroying their troops, eventually they keep producing soldiers until the industrial upkeep terminates their production lines (at least until/if they discover clean reactors). If they're continually harassing and attacking their neighbours then their production lines are kept active whilst their enemies industries are hurt fighting the Spartans' superior forces. Early to mid game Spartans rolling around Planet with missile rovers is a horrifying force to behold, by late game the Spartans are either a rape machine that can only be stopped with the probe warfare of Miriam or Morgan, the worms of Deidre or the industrial Stalingrad of Yang's magical realm - or by the late game, the Spartans ares still stuck with missile rovers whilst Zhakarov is deploying orbital space marines and singularity planet destroyers.

Also lol @ the commonwealth having any real power any more.
The Commonwealth is powerless; the nations of the Commonwealth are powerful. It would certainly be weird if the Commonwealth nations and the USA went to war, you'd get that weird situation where two sides that frequently train each other's soldiers and officers go to war

I dunno, UK does have a large navy and will soon have 2 proper carriers, and they have fair number of both SSBNs and attack subs, as well as fairly large and modern air force. Tranche 3 Typhoons are right now very likely 2nd best fighters in the world, after F-22. Canada and Australia, that also has a great navy, put together are about the same strength, just without nukes. All Commonwealth countries have relatively weak armies, though.
British army has a great deal many elite forces; I just don't see many situations that would actually get the British army from the UK to the USA. Moreover the Caribbean and Bermuda would almost immediately be lost to the USA
It is very hard to defeat the USA

Kot

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1090 on: December 23, 2016, 04:47:43 pm »

N a h.
I mean, the logistics of attacking USA and getting away with it and whatnot aside, you don't neccessarily need aircraft carriers.
Fair point, but I should have been more specific in my phrasing. Launching a trans-atlantic or trans-pacific invasion of the USA is extremely different from attacking the USA, without naval supremacy there is not going to be any reinforcement possible to Canadian or Mexican forces.
Earth is round. Trans-arctic supply lines to Canada from Russia. There is less ice than years before, but I belive you could still have an continous line from Russian territory to Canadian territory, and while temperatures would certainly be a problem, it's possible and away from American naval forces.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1091 on: December 23, 2016, 05:02:57 pm »

Thinking on that, how would Canada and Mexico ensure the best chances of victory against the USA? I reckon defeating any US invasions and ensuring they're not knocked out of the war immediately would count as a high priority objective, though I'm not sure how they could go about it.
Even by Armchair General general standards, I think it's impossible. In the period preceding WWII, the US, UK, and Canada all had plans developed for this exact scenario.

UK Plan: Launch international embargo movement but make preperations to abandon Canada to their fate.

Canada Plan: Send mobile strike force across US border preemptively to harass and slow American military advancement as much as possible, focus all other efforts on forcing the UK into the war by any means. If guerilla war had been codified yet I'm sure that would have been the next step.

American Plan: Destroy Canada. Depending upon circumstances, sail across the ocean and also destroy the UK with assistance from Ireland and Germany. Probably put the Quebecois in concentration camps or something just in case.

That was back when there were still people who were all about how the US was full of shit and could never become a real world power in the face of the proper European empires. I cannot think of any strategy, any way whatsoever Canada or Mexico can put up meaningful resistance to World Conquest America. The guerilla war outlook is a little better, but these aren't far-flung war-embittered nations nor is the scenario one in which the United States needs to try and establish a government for them to attack. Depending upon what levels of brutality you permit for the scenario, the US could just launch unrestricted raids on the population until all resistance ceases.
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Parsely

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1092 on: December 23, 2016, 05:32:02 pm »

Earth is round. Trans-arctic supply lines to Canada from Russia. There is less ice than years before, but I belive you could still have an continous line from Russian territory to Canadian territory, and while temperatures would certainly be a problem, it's possible and away from American naval forces.
There aren't any major ports in Northern Canada for landing supplies in. You'd probably have to build one. Transporting supplies overland across the tundra is also going to be a massive pain in the ass. Only 100,000 people live up there. There's almost no infrastructure.
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Kot

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1093 on: December 23, 2016, 05:39:27 pm »

Look mate, it's Russians. If anyone figures out how to supply a besieged place through crapton of ice and snow, it's them.
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Taricus

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Re: Armchair General General - /AGG
« Reply #1094 on: December 23, 2016, 05:42:36 pm »

That, and it wouldn't necessarily be resupplying a location in northern canada, mostly using the arctic passage to travel unhindered and without risk of interception. And given that cargo submarines have actually existed it'd be pretty hard to cut those supplies off.
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