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[Izu]

Need a carpenter who really loves what he's doing? (The manager could…) announce and open an offer of employment. Screen the applications and sort the one out who you think got the most potential! Same for the already closely resembling military?

/edit: I'm speaking about dwarf's attributes mostly

[Deepblade]

If I'm understanding you correctly, you're wanting a screen unlocked by having the manager noble that sorts through every dwarfs attributes and can sort it by most qualified candidates for a certain job type?

That would quite convenient and could be expanded upon for immigration as well. But, until that is put in might I suggest Dwarf Therapist? It creates a nice easy to read list.

[Izu]

If I'm understanding you correctly, you're wanting a screen unlocked by having the manager noble that sorts through every dwarfs attributes and can sort it by most qualified candidates for a certain job type?

That would quite convenient and could be expanded upon for immigration as well.

Yes, though, the manager noble was just the first thing I associated with this type of stuff. I feel like it would fit into the whole scenario that way. Showing skills & attributes may help choosing between an experienced dwarf (skill) or a potential one (attributes) or a healthy mix or none of that: a dwarven guinea pig for experiments. Yet it sounds too simple – maybe lazy dwarfs wouldn't even show up

But, until that is put in might I suggest Dwarf Therapist? It creates a nice easy to read list.

Unfortunately 3rd party apps and tilesets ruin my autistic gaming experience. Still, thanks for your hint!

[Dirst]

If I'm understanding you correctly, you're wanting a screen unlocked by having the manager noble that sorts through every dwarfs attributes and can sort it by most qualified candidates for a certain job type?

That would quite convenient and could be expanded upon for immigration as well.

Yes, though, the manager noble was just the first thing I associated with this type of stuff. I feel like it would fit into the whole scenario that way. Showing skills & attributes may help choosing between an experienced dwarf (skill) or a potential one (attributes) or a healthy mix or none of that: a dwarven guinea pig for experiments. Yet it sounds too simple – maybe lazy dwarfs wouldn't even show up

But, until that is put in might I suggest Dwarf Therapist? It creates a nice easy to read list.

Unfortunately 3rd party apps and tilesets ruin my autistic gaming experience. Still, thanks for your hint!

The game does have something like this already when selecting nobles and squad members, but it relies upon skills rather than attributes.  Most Dwarves are simply assigned labors, and it'd be nice to have the process reversed: pick a labor and have appropriate Dwarves listed.  But that would probably still rely on just skills.

My guess is that Toady would like you to figure out for yourself who would be the best psychologically.

[GavJ]

My guess is that Toady would like you to figure out for yourself who would be the best psychologically.

Presumably he wants the challenge if so to be in decisions, though, not smashing your keyboard repetitively.

So at the very least, being able to sort dwarves by their psychologies in a simple list screen, even if the game doesn't tell you necessarily which personalities match which jobs.

[Izu]

My guess is that Toady would like you to figure out for yourself who would be the best psychologically.

Presumably he wants the challenge if so to be in decisions, though, not smashing your keyboard repetitively.

So at the very least, being able to sort dwarves by their psychologies in a simple list screen, even if the game doesn't tell you necessarily which personalities match which jobs.

Just like that, that's why dwarfs could apply for a profession voluntarily, not being fully sorted after potential or skill. Maybe special attributes could make them motivated to apply for professions they aren't even talented at?

[dudlol]

To me it's sounding like the OP wants dwarves who are not necessarily suited for a job, but instead who have personality traits which make the job appealing to them, to potentially apply with the manager (ask the player) to enable the labor on them and gain a happiness boost for it. Or penalty perhaps if they end up fired.

Of that's what he means it's actually a wonderful idea, and ties into dwarves personalities and life goals very well.

[Izu]

To me it's sounding like the OP wants dwarves who are not necessarily suited for a job, but instead who have personality traits which make the job appealing to them, to potentially apply with the manager (ask the player) to enable the labor on them and gain a happiness boost for it. Or penalty perhaps if they end up fired.

That's exactly what I meant, although dwarfs with the right attributes would be more likely to apply. Everbody likes to do things he's good at. Maybe a personality trait such as self-awareness could help out there. A dwarf who's completely unaware of what he's good at could apply to the wrong job. A very self-aware dwarf knows exactly what he wants and what he's good at.
That being said, apologies for my english

/edit:
Next, the player would have to sort out the kind of dwarf he's looking for

[Agent_Irons]

This sounds great. Can you imagine trying to micro a potash maker into sacrificing himself for the fort to tap a magma tube while all the strong miners queue up around the block trying to get their old jobs back? Priceless.

[GavJ]

Having people apply for things they're totally inappropriate for doesn't sound so great. Although flavorful, it would be useless for the overseer. Even just some bad apples would ake the tool largely useless, since you'd now have to go in and manually sift anyway.

I'm all for flavor for its own sake, but if it's in a tool that isn't helpful and is buried in menus, all that will happen is that few people will ever see it.

[Izu]

Having people apply for things they're totally inappropriate for doesn't sound so great.

It's like real life! Hooray!

Although flavorful, it would be useless for the overseer. Even just some bad apples would ake the tool largely useless, since you'd now have to go in and manually sift anyway.

I'm all for flavor for its own sake, but if it's in a tool that isn't helpful and is buried in menus, all that will happen is that few people will ever see it.

You're right.
Agent_Irons made me think about: Then what if the, let's say, 5 best dwarves (including some who are lacking potential) gather around an area such as the manager's Office and the player had to V-view the applicant's decriptions? That alone would only slow everything down,
but first, it would give the player an opportunity to get to know individual dwarves better from a more personal perspective. And IMO that's really needed! And second: Player might have spotted a great dwarf with great attributes who's got a lot of potential but is unaware about himself, so next time you might know who to choose for a specific labor, even without calling out job offerings. Something like that.

[GavJ]

It's like real life! Hooray!

Well no, because unlike real life, you already have a comprehensive list of every possible person for the job in your file cabinet. So whereas you are FORCED to endure the pain of applications to find people in real life, in DF, the feature will just collect dust due to already having a better (or at least equal and more familiar) method available.

It could be tweaked to be useful, though.  Like, if dwarves were fairly accurate-ish about applying, and if it also displayed the top 1-3 relevant skills for that job in columns so you could just read them as a table, then I would use it all the time.

[Izu]

It's like real life! Hooray!

Well no, because unlike real life, you already have a comprehensive list of every possible person for the job in your file cabinet. So whereas you are FORCED to endure the pain of applications to find people in real life, in DF, the feature will just collect dust due to already having a better (or at least equal and more familiar) method available.

It could be tweaked to be useful, though.  Like, if dwarves were fairly accurate-ish about applying, and if it also displayed the top 1-3 relevant skills for that job in columns so you could just read them as a table, then I would use it all the time.

I'm trying to avoid making it too easy. Please tweak it to be useful, I just threw a very rough idea into the room to make attributes easier to manage. Right now I don't have any ideas how to make it more realistic but useful at the same time

[GavJ]

UI challenges aren't good gameplay.  Mind/puzzle/actual meaningful decisions are fine gameplay.

For example, for a carpenter, the only skill that matters is pretty much carpentry (I think, don't actually know about physical attributes etc.). That SHOULDN'T be "hard," no reason to try and force it to be.

However, some things are less obvious. Like military, do you choose a guy with weapon skill but no dodge or armor? Or a guy with good fighter and dodge, but no weapon or armor skill? This would of course require that not all migrants have exactly the same layout of military skills first, but you get the idea. Having to choose applicants for this would still be interesting and not completely obvious, in a natural way.

UI should make brainless things just that -- brainlessly easy. But just not making key decisions for you in a cheat-y way.  This is easy to do without thinking too hard about it -- if a UI option makes something easier by just making the data better arranged or fewer keystrokes, then DO IT. Always do it. If the UI would make it easier via complex logical algorihtms that attempt to make choices for you, then maybe avoid doing that, that's all.