Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[therahedwig]

I noticed in the d_init files there was a set of options related to hauling and using containers. They looked really complicated so i ignored them as I don't ever notice this problem but if you want to do some !Science! you could try seeing if they help fix things.

I don't think those are for hauling with a bag rather than storing things within a bag.

That said, the description says that before the item setting was seed_combine:2 instead of 1000, so someone could try to see what that does?

If I understand correctly, it define the maximum distance at which the dorfs will take the bin/barrel with them to the item they want to store. After that, they will go to the item, take it, and then go put it in the bin/barrel. I think changing those settings could solve OP's problem.

Because a dorf taking a bin with him to store items can actually be great, as long as he fill it with many items at once, rather than taking a lead bin, putting a lead bar on it, returning to the stockpile, and starting again, and again. I'm not sure what exactly is the requirement for a dwarf to put several items inside a container at once, though, but I know I've seen it happen.

No, it specifically says the values are for when a dwarf uses a filed or empty container, which may elevate the problem a bit, but will result in a stockpile full of half-filled seedbags. Regardless, may be worth a try.

That said, associated bug: http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=5964

[Bki]

I noticed in the d_init files there was a set of options related to hauling and using containers. They looked really complicated so i ignored them as I don't ever notice this problem but if you want to do some !Science! you could try seeing if they help fix things.

I don't think those are for hauling with a bag rather than storing things within a bag.

That said, the description says that before the item setting was seed_combine:2 instead of 1000, so someone could try to see what that does?

If I understand correctly, it define the maximum distance at which the dorfs will take the bin/barrel with them to the item they want to store. After that, they will go to the item, take it, and then go put it in the bin/barrel. I think changing those settings could solve OP's problem.

Because a dorf taking a bin with him to store items can actually be great, as long as he fill it with many items at once, rather than taking a lead bin, putting a lead bar on it, returning to the stockpile, and starting again, and again. I'm not sure what exactly is the requirement for a dwarf to put several items inside a container at once, though, but I know I've seen it happen.

No, it specifically says the values are for when a dwarf uses a filed or empty container, which may elevate the problem a bit, but will result in a stockpile full of half-filled seedbags. Regardless, may be worth a try.

That said, associated bug: http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=5964

You're right. I must have mixed this with something else and misremembered what I read.

[MeMyselfAndI]

Here's a (fairly simple) idea that, while not solving this, would hopefully mitigate it.

Currently, when you have a stockpile with a bin in it, the dwarf always will go an pick up the bin, take it to the items, put the items in the bin, and return the bin to the stockpile.

What if, as a heuristic, the dwarf instead chose the shortest path of "go to stockpile, pick up bin and carry it to the items, carry bin back to stockpile" and "go to item, carry item to stockpile, repeat for other items" adjusted for (approximate) movement speed with the thing the dwarf is carrying on each leg.

So with a single item, the dwarf would always carry it to the bin. (As carrying a bin + item from where the item is to the stockpile is always going to be slower than carrying just the item from where the item is to the stockpile.) With multiple items, the dwarf will be more inclined to carry the bin to the items when the bin is light as opposed to when it is heavy.

As a heuristic, perhaps "dwarves always select the lightest bin from the stockpile, and then try to empty it into other fuller bins in the stockpile when they are done the hauling job".

Another thing that would actually solve most of these problems, although it would probably be harder to do, is for items in the state of "being moved to a stockpile / will be moved to a stockpile" to be able to be used for workshop tasks, and for dwarves to be able to grab items from bins being currently moved, or at least for dwarves to be able to wait for bins to be moved.

[Porpoisepower]

I thought the idea was that a dwarf picks up a bin, picks up all the stuff that will fit the bin(and the stockpile it supposed to go to). If it it did this, and you keep the number of haulers down, (less competition for all the thread hauling for example).  Than it would be a fairly efficient process.

[therahedwig]

I thought the idea was that a dwarf picks up a bin, picks up all the stuff that will fit the bin(and the stockpile it supposed to go to). If it it did this, and you keep the number of haulers down, (less competition for all the thread hauling for example).  Than it would be a fairly efficient process.

Yeah, that was sorta the idea. Before, after sieges, all your haulers would run outside... to each pick up one goblin sock. The current system was intended to simplify those kind of cases, but due to dwarves having no sense of respect for each other's jobs, it just becomes announcement spam.

What should ideally be happening is that a hauler dwarf takes a backpack, empty container or a wheelbarrow, sticks in the collected items, then goes to the stockpile and puts them away in the appropriate barrels. A little complex, and will likely generate a 'fill hauling container', 'bring hauling container to stockpile' jobs, and individual 'pull item out of hauling container and into stockpile' jobs for each item, with the hauling container not being moved again till it's empty.

On the other hand, it has a lot of logic similar to minecarts, with the exception of requiring a specified take-stockpile.

[Maklak]

The "improoved hauling" is irritating to no end, as far as I'm concerend. The main problems are that fetching containers tends to take more time than save and all the cancellation spam from inaccessible items in bins.

It is nice to see some sensible solution proposals. While there are work-arounds like a no-bin stockpile that feeds to stocklie that has bins or railcart-dumps to a quantum stockpile, those are annoying. I'd much rather simply designate a stockpile, allow bins and have it just work. I understand the view-point of "OK, if you follow these instructons, it will be much less painfull", but I'd rather see the underlying issues reduced in severity and now would be a good time.

[greycat]

It is nice to see some sensible solution proposals. While there are work-arounds like a no-bin stockpile that feeds to stocklie that has bins or railcart-dumps to a quantum stockpile, those are annoying. I'd much rather simply designate a stockpile, allow bins and have it just work. I understand the view-point of "OK, if you follow these instructons, it will be much less painfull", but I'd rather see the underlying issues reduced in severity and now would be a good time.

Well, the thing is, you're talking to other players here.  All we can give you are workarounds.  The only person who can make substantial changes to the underlying mechanic is Toady One, who may or may not even be reading this thread (probably isn't).

If you want to talk to Toady about the issues, your best channels are the Future of the Fortress thread, and the bug tracker.  And apparently the Suggestions forum.

[crossmr]

He reads here too.
i figured if we generated a decent discussion he, or someone else, might catch it.

I thought the idea was that a dwarf picks up a bin, picks up all the stuff that will fit the bin(and the stockpile it supposed to go to). If it it did this, and you keep the number of haulers down, (less competition for all the thread hauling for example).  Than it would be a fairly efficient process.

The problem is this doesn't even work right as I described. I've been watching the farmer process plants. He processes a stack and generates X threads. One stockpile can take threads, and it's right beside the workshop. Instead of generating a single hauling task which someone could grab a container and do it, it generates X hauling tasks, in this case at least 4 which causes all the bins to become tasked, and then the weavers can't use them as source for their job.

If a single task was generated and one bin picked up it would work great, until there was only 1 bin worth of thread left which would put us back to where we are now.

As another person mentioned, and I've mentioned in other threads, we need other dwarves not to lose their shit the moment an item becomes unavailable. If the item is not forbidden, and simply in a moving container, they should delay their job.