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[Delta Foxtrot]

Eh, If I had put that money I spent on those 3 forts, that got torn down a turn before they were finished, into labs and a bigger standing army I might have stood a fighting chance.
It's just that most bay12 games seem to be pretty pacifist even for a short time after indies run out and I counted on that to fortify my position.

Oh, that was damn lucky of me then. Care to disclose their locations? I had no idea I was stomping forts, certainly that many at least. It is true that I attacked you before I had all the tech and mages I wanted. Didn't want to give you too much time to get entrenched. Good on me, then.

I agree with you on your point about Bay12 meta and I've seen it discussed negatively in a few post-game briefs. Hence I was expecting this game to change that meta so I took a dragon to have something beefy for early defence, turns out I was wrong

[Delta Foxtrot]

Spam for righteousness!

Also, I will have trouble playing in the weekend. I might be able to send in turns, but there is no guarantee.

I do hope this won't be our first stale of the game.

edit:
oh dear

So I assume we'll be rolling back? Standard instructions apply. Don't download the new turn, delete your old 2h's and we'll be back on track soon enough.

[tompliss]

ROLLING BACK !

Sorry lija, didn't see you couldn't play there, as you wrote somewhere ._."



So it's simple, only Lijacote makes a turn with the rollback. Nobody else sends a turn.

[lijacote]

The turn is in. Sorry. I did tell you.
Now to go and complain at 407.

[Elfeater]

Hmmm, I have been playing as Ulm and the Fire inquisitors a bit, and having a relatively fun time, cant say I have been smashing the AI though, holding them off and expanding in some cases yes.

[Delta Foxtrot]

Hmmm, I have been playing as Ulm and the Fire inquisitors a bit, and having a relatively fun time, cant say I have been smashing the AI though, holding them off and expanding in some cases yes.

Do note that some nations appear in all three of the eras and can change quite a bit. Just saying 'Ulm' alone for example tells us little. EA Ulm has burly dual wielding Conan expies with earth/nature shamans and stealthy armies. MA Ulm has super heavy infantry that can take most hits without a scratch, and they have earth smiths who let them recruit a ton of those super heavy infantries. LA Ulm has secret society mages with primarily astral magic, less super heavy (but still decently heavy) infantry, super heavy undead infantry and frigging vampires.

Marignon is, especially for a newbie, a lot more similar between MA and LA. Sure there's blood and sailing and things, but core roster is fairly similar.

I don't know how well skill against AI translates to MP. The few times I've played long enough to fight AI's I've been beaten somewhat consistently. Tactics used against AI v tactics used in PVP tend to differ some. Not that I'm excellent at MP either.

[Elfeater]

Hmmm, I have been playing as Ulm and the Fire inquisitors a bit, and having a relatively fun time, cant say I have been smashing the AI though, holding them off and expanding in some cases yes.

Do note that some nations appear in all three of the eras and can change quite a bit. Just saying 'Ulm' alone for example tells us little. EA Ulm has burly dual wielding Conan expies with earth/nature shamans and stealthy armies. MA Ulm has super heavy infantry that can take most hits without a scratch, and they have earth smiths who let them recruit a ton of those super heavy infantries. LA Ulm has secret society mages with primarily astral magic, less super heavy (but still decently heavy) infantry, super heavy undead infantry and frigging vampires.

Marignon is, especially for a newbie, a lot more similar between MA and LA. Sure there's blood and sailing and things, but core roster is fairly similar.

I don't know how well skill against AI translates to MP. The few times I've played long enough to fight AI's I've been beaten somewhat consistently. Tactics used against AI v tactics used in PVP tend to differ some. Not that I'm excellent at MP either.

I have been playing MA Ulm to some effect, the issue I am having is a pretty ugly three front war with fish people, giants, and viking like people.

[HopFlash]

hmm...I'm not sure what happend but a building is not build that I wanted and I have way fewer Treasury at my turn start as Total income - Upkeep (and no special events happend).

Perhaps I miss something but it looks suspicous.
I try to investigate further tonight.

[tompliss]

Your mail provider should have kept the 2h file you sent, and if you haven't totally deleted it, the trn file from the previous turn too. Put then in a savedgame folder to verify that you sent the correct turn

[HopFlash]

Your mail provider should have kept the 2h file you sent, and if you haven't totally deleted it, the trn file from the previous turn too. Put then in a savedgame folder to verify that you sent the correct turn

yes...I saved all trn and 2h files...but with this I can only verify the lab building...but that with my Treasury looks weird. I miss ~400g.

[Delta Foxtrot]

Do note that "total income - upkeep" isn't entirely truthful. IIRC turn resolution sequence goes something like this: first unrest increases, then you get gold based on your unrest penalties (so more unrest less income), then your patrolling reduces unrest. Meaning you may have zero unrest when you end the turn and zero unrest when you open the next one, but you still had some unrest that reduced your income. It's somewhat obtuse.

But if that happened in your case, I'm still quite sceptical about it being a whole 400g which might indicate that there's something else going on. No idea what, though.


edit:
Have you looked at the new .trn file while it was accompanied by a pre-rollback .2h file?

[HopFlash]

Lab building:
ok...in the 2h file for Turn 26 I order to build a lab in a region.
in Turn 27 the person who should build the lab is standing in a neighbour region.

Income:
in Turn 27...
Total Income - Upkeep - Treasury = 345g
Unrest with patrolling down in 2 regions with 10 brigands killed in total.
in Turn 26...
Total Income - Upkeep - Treasury = 190g
No patrolling kills happened.

If I compare the unrest in all my regions between the two turns there is only a marginal difference.
So...perhaps there is something wrong going on with the rollback or there is some other "coincidence" that I don't understand.

But if noone else has problems then it's ok and we play along.
Perhaps I have saved the wrong 2h and trn files with the rollback...I can't reconstruct any mistakes.
I wanted to mention it if someone else sees problems with the turn then we would have a bigger problem...but it doesn't seem like that.

[E. Albright]

I don't know how well skill against AI translates to MP. The few times I've played long enough to fight AI's I've been beaten somewhat consistently. Tactics used against AI v tactics used in PVP tend to differ some. Not that I'm excellent at MP either.

It depends on how hard your AI is. If you're facing overwhelming AI, you're forced to be creative. It won't teach you involved things like adaptive scripting, but it can be helpful for teaching you economy and squeezing every last drop out of your resources.

It also can be useful for making you much better at expansion, which really makes a difference in MP. It additionally can help give you a better idea of all the tricks in your toolkit, though it's easy to miss this by just figuring out what works and doing it over and over again.

The bottom line is that beating the AI mostly just requires you to be able to analyze how the combat AI works so you can exploit it. MP is more about being flexible, and working the human side of things, both in terms of diplomacy and subterfuge. Although the skills that help against the AI will still help here.

As long as you're adaptable, don't let it go to your head, and don't calcify the bad tactical habits that the AI will let you get away with, I'd say it's better to be good against (non-pushover) AI than to be a total neophyte going into MP games.

[Delta Foxtrot]

As long as you're adaptable, don't let it go to your head, and don't calcify the bad tactical habits that the AI will let you get away with, I'd say it's better to be good against (non-pushover) AI than to be a total neophyte going into MP games.

I'd agree that you want your first one or two games to be newbie games. Me joining 401 (mixed level game) within a few weeks of getting dom4 wasn't the best decision for the match itself, I think. Not with so many fairly experienced and skilled players in it. I was barely a speed bump once Agartha mobilized. Albeit a delicious, gem filled speed bump I hope.

Edit:

The general rule with rollbacks is to make sure you don't play new turns with old 2h's, I don't know the technical bit of it but I assume that's where the issues are if there are any.

[HopFlash]

ok...found my problem with the Treasury and it's a little bit embarrassing.

I have missed a region where auto recruitment was on and the change in the turns was from different resource amounts it seems.
Sorry to upset the apple cart.

now for the important things...
I'm killing 3-4 scouts every turn in my regions (and several turns ago I should have so many scouts? ).

And there are 4 (four!!!) big armies from different nations near together at the borders...will this be a mega-clash or only smashing of the little ones?
If someone wants to negotiate something I have an open ear