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Adam

1 (2.6%)

Bob

19 (48.7%)

Chris

7 (17.9%)

Dan

12 (30.8%)

Total Members Voted: 36

[LordBucket]

Adam, Bob, Chris and Dan are shown the following and asked to describe it:


0000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000
0000010000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000


Adam: It's a bunch of zeros.

Bob: It's a bunch of zeros with a one.

Chris: The one is obviously the important thing here.

Dan: I agree. Focus is definitely drawn to the one. I'd say it's a one surrounded by zeros.

Bob: Why are you two focusing on the one? The zeros are clearly more important to the overall picture.

Adam: Who cares about the one? There are 300 zeros.

Chris: It's not 300 zeros. Stop ignoring the one.

Bob: Yes, the roughly 300 zeros do have a one with them.

Adam: It's 300 zeros. The one may as well be a rounding error. It doesn't matter.

Chris: You're both crazy. How can you not see the one?

Dan: I see it. But I also see the zeros. I agree they're not the important part of the picture, but they're there.

Chris: Why are all of you fixated on zeros? There's a one.

Adam: It doesn't matter. 300 zeros.

Dan: Don't try to tell me when you looked at that, the one wasn't the first thing you noticed.

Adam: No. I noticed the 300 zeros.

Bob: Of course I saw it. But out of a field of nearly 300 zeros, why would you focus on the single one?

Chris: Because the one is the important part. Imagine if there was a chair in a room. Would you describe that as, "it's an empty room. Oh, and there's a chair in it." Of course not. You'd say there was a chair.

Bob: If there were 300 people in the room too, I'd be sure to point that out before I mentioned the chair. Focusing on the chair in a room with 300 people gives a terribly distorted picture.

Adam: If there were 300 people in it, you probably wouldn't even notice the chair.

Dan: I think we're getting sidetracked. Getting back to the picture, what stands out to me is the one. And that one is surrounded by zeros.

Chris: What stands out to me is the one.

Adam: What stands out to me is the fact that there are 300 zeros.

Bob: Standing out isn't the point. It's a field of zeros with a one in it.


Discuss.

[BlitzDungeoneer]

What are we supposed to discuss?
I only noticed the 1 after it was pointed out by the dialogue, if that's what you mean.

[Cheeetar]

It would help if you explained what you wanted us to argue about, Bucket.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Did you get some bad acid or something?

[LordBucket]

I only noticed the 1 after it was pointed out by the dialogue, if that's what you mean.

You're Adam. Not everyone is.

It would help if you explained what you wanted us to argue about, Bucket.

Check the poll results.

This phenomenon is the source of many disagreements on bay12. And in real life.

[Cheeetar]

That wasn't an explanation. An analogy:

Brett thought the background was white, but Chad thought it was a very pale gray. Debate.

That wouldn't be a good opening post, would it? Nor would there be much to talk about.

[BlitzDungeoneer]

I think he's talking about people having different opinions, but that doesn't seem very likely.

[alexandertnt]

I suppose internally I would precieve it like Dan (my attention is drawn to the one), but I would just be repeating "its a bunch of 0's with a 1" which seems to be closer thinking to Bob, but unlike bob I wouldn't make the claim that the 300 0's are more important because I don't know anything about the context of the image. Either Chris or Bob's analogy (or neither) could be valid depending on the context.

... Maby thats sort of what is meant by "the source of many disagreements", In the sense that people tend to end up arguing over people's perception of an issue rather than the issue itself?

Or something like that.

[crazysheep]

I think he's talking about people having different opinions, but that doesn't seem very likely.

Actually, he might be. Maybe that's the reason there are so many zeroes. People who tend to agree with Chris would consider the other numerals to be worthless, hence why they see the numbers to be zeroes.

And that could be the reason why the field of digits are zeroes and a lone 1, rather than, say a field of ones and a lone 2.

Personally, I agree most with Dan's view that the 1 stands out, but I can't fully agree with dismissing all the zeroes.

[LordBucket]

I think he's talking about people having different opinions, but that doesn't seem very likely.

This isn't about opinion. It's about focus. Attention. Perception. For example, what is this a picture of?







Some people will look at that and say it's a picture of a girl. Some people will look at that and say it's a picture of a horse. The process of formulating opinion does not occur until after the process of perception. If I show two people that picture and they both respond "I'd love to ride her." If one is talking about the girl and the other is talking about the horse...do you see how major miscommunication can occur?

Apply this concept to any debate on bay12. We each have our own internal representation of the world around us that is based on perception that is focus-dependent. Do you see how when somebody who looks at 100 people and "sees all the heterosexual people"...has a conversation with someone who looks at the same 100 people and "sees the gay man" ...do you see how those two people could very reasonably have very different worldviews as a consequence of their differing perceptions?

If somebody by nature of their focus sees a guy in a wheelchair, do you see how they might as a consequence have different opinions on mandating wheelchair access in public places than the person, who by nature of their focus...sees the thousands of people who have no use for it?

Adam: "Why require every company in the world to pay for these things that nobody will use?"

Chris: "How can you be so heartless? I know people in wheelchairs. You might be in an accident and need it yourself."

Bob: "Compelling every business to accommodate a couple people isn't justified."

Chris: "There are people in wheelchairs. The majority will have to accomodate them."

Do you get it now?

[BlitzDungeoneer]

I think so, yes.
So, not opinions, but perception and/or worldview?

[Yoink]

I still don't entirely get it, but I agree with Bob on the OP's question.

[WealthyRadish]

Funnily enough, when I look at it, I'll briefly hallucinate other numbers on the edge of my focus while moving my gaze around. Maybe just a 3:00 AM thing, and almost definitely not the point of the exercise, but I found it interesting.

[LordBucket]

Personally, I agree most with Dan's view that the 1 stands out

If the exception is what stands out first to you, do you see how that could heavily influence your worldview? Your social and political opinions?

but I can't fully agree with dismissing all the zeroes.

Whereas two people so far have voted that they agreed with Chris. Which comes as no surprise, because I see that perception in bay12 discussions all the time. Personally I most agree with Bob. Focusing on the trend, the majority, the "greatest portion" and then acknowledging the exceptions makes the most sense to me.

What about feeding the homeless?

Chris: I gave a five dollars to the homeless man on my street. I'm fighting homelessness!

Dan: That's great! I did the same. Let's get Bob and Adam to give $5 each too, and together we can help all the other homeless hungry!

Bob: No. You people are wasting your time. There are millions of homeless people. The four of us feeding four people is not going to help. Well, I guess it will help those four people. Ok, I'll pitch in.

Adam: What homeless people?

[Silleh Boy]

...I don't really agree with any of them as I see this - a subtle wave of green discolouration blowing out as a wave to the right side of the of the 1.

not the best representation of what I see, as what I see's a lot more subtle, but here's an approximation to give a general idea:



Edit: Not to derail, I'm just one of those outlying statistics I guess, that doesn't fit in with trends as my perception's warped in this case.