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[Cheeetar]

Before we get too caught up with the bad man fantasizing about having a good excuse to beat a woman...let's remember that there are crazies on both sides of this.

I will accept that the women who want to castrate men and keep them in cages and depopulate the world of men...probably aren't representative of the average feminist.

I ask you to accept that the guys fantasizing about having good reasons to beat up women probably also aren't representative of the average male rights advocate.

Exactly. When people refer to MRA, they are most commonly referring to the crazy people who have hijacked sometimes well intentioned movements with extreme misogyny. I am happy that you have at least claimed to have learnt something.

[LordBucket]

When people refer to MRA, they are most commonly referring to the crazy people who
have hijacked sometimes well intentioned movements with extreme misogyny.

And that's unfortunate, if legitimate issues are being ignored and ridiculed because of it.

[Cheeetar]

When people refer to MRA, they are most commonly referring to the crazy people who
have hijacked sometimes well intentioned movements with extreme misogyny.

And that's unfortunate, if legitimate issues are being ignored and ridiculed because of it.

I couldn't agree more.

[alexandertnt]

personal anecdote stuff

This guy isn't advocating "self defence", he isn't saying you should "standing up for yourself". He is describing in rather hateful detail beating up women, and taking pleasure in doing so.

The rest of the examples continue with the websites rather common trend of blaiming women ("women" not "some women") for seemingly everything they can think of. Rape was blamed on the women, the death of men related to blood diamonds was blamed on women as a whole etc.

When we see the guy claiming that dressing provocatively justifies rape (and incidentally I note that that article was deleted from the site) ...let's not make the mistake of automatically ignoring the guy being fined for public indecency because women used him for sex while he was unconscious. Let's not ignore the fake paternity tests or the the guys receiving court orders to pay child support for children who aren't even theirs.

The idea that by discussing an issue, we are somehow ignoring another issue is just not true. By discussing people who try to justify rape, we are ignoring female-on-male rape. People have already stated this but these things are not a zero sum game. By discussing one issue we are not losing out on another. About the best thing we can work out here is that both of these issues are bad.

We shouldn't ignore those issues, but people need to learn to actually address those issues specifically, rather than using them as some sort of counterpoint to discussions involving women.

I ask you to accept that the guys fantasizing about having good reasons to beat up women probably also aren't representative of the average male rights advocate.

Someone calling themselves an MRA is probably going to be some sort of crazy, the name alone doesn't make that false. But there are most certainly people advocating for legitimate male related issues that are good, I linked to one a few posts ago, for example. Most of these people avoid the term MRA because of what the crazies have done to it.

And that's unfortunate, if legitimate issues are being ignored and ridiculed because of it.

MRA's are harming male related issues by associating them with crazies, and by generally being obstructionists. And it is unfortunete because there are legitimate issues here.

@Th4DwArfY1

But feminism has not caused any of this. It's pretty much global, and happens regardless of the effects of feminism in society. These things happened before feminism existed. Unfortunetely, most of these issues only pop up as some sort of non-sequitur counterpoint in discussions related to women rather than actually adressed properly. Which is unfortunete because it is a completely legit issue.

[Sergarr]

WTF, this thread is still going on?!

[LordBucket]

This guy isn't advocating "self defence", he isn't saying you should "standing up for yourself". He is describing in rather hateful detail beating up women, and taking pleasure in doing so.

And apparently people in this thread find that more gruesome and shocking than the feminists advocating castration and murder. Rolepgeek was the one who brought up mra, not me. It isn't relevant to my thesis, so it's very easy for me to walk away from. But I do notice the double standard.

WTF, this thread is still going on?!

Our tangents have gone on tangents.

[alexandertnt]

This guy isn't advocating "self defence", he isn't saying you should "standing up for yourself". He is describing in rather hateful detail beating up women, and taking pleasure in doing so.

And apparently people in this thread find that more gruesome and shocking than the feminists advocating castration and murder. Rolepgeek was the one who brought up mra, not me. It isn't relevant to my thesis, so it's very easy for me to walk away from. But I do notice the double standard.

People don't find it more shocking or gruesome, they find and hear this stuff more often. This sort of behaviour defines the MRA, whereas your feminist example does not define feminism. They are both terrable thoughts.

This is all from a societal "at large" perspective, not individual case perspective. They are both terrable ideas, but one is much more prevalent than the other.

The idea that women are automatically to blame is much more common than the idea that all men should have their balls cut off.

[TD1]

Women get what assistance they need, if they admit there is a problem and seek help. Now let's help men to get to that same level.

Sure, go ahead and set up a shelter for battered men- there's not really anything stopping you. I don't see anybody disagreeing with you here.

The point is feminism is misdirecting its efforts, and it can be as uncouth as any Man's rights activist.

You have evidence of men saying bad things about women. They're beaters, so we should beat them, all that. Feminists are stripping in the streets and burning crucified barbie dolls.

Then, you have the fact that there's little point in women getting much more help. Sure, things can still be improved, but that can always be said. Instead of redirecting their efforts to now help the men, as any true equality organisation that was honest would do, they focus on an ad campaign so women being beaten know it's okay to accept help. This is fine, but it should be a sideline to helping men in need. Why not set up the same services that help women for men? You could even use the same facilities, and it wouldn't be too much of a drain.

[Leafsnail]

Meanwhile, on the crazy side of feminism:

http://radicalprofeminist.blogspot.com/2010/11/andrea-dworkin-and-phenomenon-of.html

"I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig.""

I take it you are aware of the fact that the link you posted calls this out as a misleading and selective quotation?  How can you be this dishonest?

Out of your other links: SCUM had one member who almost everyone agrees was crazy (she went on to try and kill Andy Warhol), and both of your others are from Femitheist, who is clearly a parody.

[Cheeetar]

The point is feminism is misdirecting its efforts, and it can be as uncouth as any Man's rights activist.

You have evidence of men saying bad things about women. They're beaters, so we should beat them, all that. Feminists are stripping in the streets and burning crucified barbie dolls.

Then, you have the fact that there's little point in women getting much more help. Sure, things can still be improved, but that can always be said. Instead of redirecting their efforts to now help the men, as any true equality organisation that was honest would do, they focus on an ad campaign so women being beaten know it's okay to accept help. This is fine, but it should be a sideline to helping men in need. Why not set up the same services that help women for men? You could even use the same facilities, and it wouldn't be too much of a drain.

Charity organisations are free to work in whichever way they choose, to whichever goal they so wish. Some people donate towards the RSPCA- are you angry or upset that that money could have gone towards helping male victims of abuse?

If you think these organisations are being dishonest by advertising as for equality- an inefficiency in operation does not make them not pro-equality.

[TD1]

I hear an awful lot of "Feminists are for equality of all!"

They're not.

[SomeStupidGuy]

Hahahaha holy hell this thread is a mess.
PTW. Keep up the good work!

[Redzephyr01]

[Samarkand]

Not that not having read any feminists would disqualify someone from participating in this thread, but I'm curious how many people here have read a book by a feminist author.

[TD1]

Not that not having read any feminists would disqualify someone from participating in this thread, but I'm curious how many people here have read a book by a feminist author.

Feminists can write? 0_o

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I joke, of course. No...NO, NOT THE EYES!