So thirty seconds google for a book on women coal miners in Appalachia from a socialist feminist point of view.
What about it? It appears to be a historical fiction novel. I don't think a novel about female coal miners constitutes an example of feminists pushing for parity in numbers of male vs female coal miners.
Now, to be fair...I haven't
read the thing...it's possible there's political commentary in there, but reading only brief excerpts, what I get from it is basically "women have worked in coal mines, and they did perfectly well, so don't look down on women and claim they can't do a man's job."
That's all well and good, but I don't think it addresses the point we were discussing.
feminists do push for women to be accepted in dangerous and (often low paying) manual roles all the time.
Let's go back to the
original comment of mine that prompted this particular discussion of coal mining:
I don't see feminists pushing to have more women working in coal mines "for equality." I don't see feminists pushing for longer male life expectancy "for equality." I don't see women rallying to move funds away from breasts cancer research in favor of spending on underfunded men's health issues..."for equality."
If people want to rally to make life better for women, that's ok. But stop it with the illusion that it's "for equality."
Please read the above quote. In case it was not clear...the point of the coal mining example, like the other examples given, was that so far as I can tell, feminists are not usually interested in
equality. They simply want to make things better for women. If there is a
desirable position or industry where there are more men than women, or unpleasant things that more women have to deal with than men, they will be perceived as inequalities. But when there are unpleasant things in which there are more men than women or desireable positions held more by women than men...those
won't be perceived as inequalities.
Rather than fictional novels based on real-life female coal miners, can you find me example of feminists saying that it's unfair that so many men work in dirty, dangerous, unpleasant positions like coal mining and "to be fair and equal" we need to get women in those positions to relieve men from the injustice of being unfairly represented in them? Can you find me examples of feminists saying it's unfair that women hold the vast majority of highly paid nursing positions, and that we need to get more men into those positions to be fair? Can you find me examples of feminists saying that it's unfair that women live so much longer than men and that we need to spend more research money on men's health issues to make things more equal?
Because that was the point of both the coal mining and the other examples in that quote. That feminists don't appear to be interested in equality. Only in promoting women and calling it equality. When men have an advantage, they will decry it and suggest that women need better. But when women have an advantage,
they don't decry that advantage and say that men need better.
Which,
like I've already acknowledged:
If people want to rally to make life better for women, that's ok. But stop it with the illusion that it's "for equality."
...it's ok if feminism exclusively promotes women. But if that's the case,
then be honest about it, and say that it's all about promoting women...and stop claiming that it's about "equality."
Because you are looking at this as some absurd one dimensional measurement of equality, measured by whatever factors you choose to care about at this given time.
So give me different factors to look at. I've asked for that multiple times.
What criteria do you wish to use to judge this? I've given several. If you don't like mine, that's fine. We can use something else.
I assert, that speaking generally
life is better in the US for woman than it is for men. Choose any area you like: finance, dating, social exchange, peer expectation, law, college, health...in
most areas, women simply have a better deal than men.
Are there certain specific areas in which men have a better deal? Yes. In my opinion they are both outnumbered and out-how-much-bettered by the areas in which women have the better deal.
Simultaneously, it has been my observation, that "the trend" among those who espouse and vocally self- identify with feminism, is that they tend to perceive women as disadvantaged in comparison to men, and seek to reverse this perceived disadvantage.
If I have a lollipop, an apple and a bruise on my face...and if you have an ice cream cone, an orange and a papercut...and if you then see this and call it unfair...and if you then wage a war "for equality" that results in me having a lollipop and an apple and a bruise on my face and you having a lollipop, an apple, an ice cream cone, an orange and a band-aid on your papercut...did you really make things more equal?
I don't think so.
dismissing feminism as just a political movement to promote women ignores the wealth of feminist work and writing on gender roles that could well be illustrative of the issues men are facing.
I never see any of this discussed outside (certain) academic feminist circles though.
Yeah, I don't generally see those things discussed either.
To be fair, I have read articles by feminists acknowledging the US dating culture is unfair to men. They are, however, largely drowned out by the wage disparity complaints.