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[Dame de la Licorne]

Hiya,

So after reading the wiki, I added the following to my dwarves to make them strictly heterosexual and genned a new world:

   [CASTE:FEMALE]
      [ORIENTATION:MALE:0:0:100]
      [ORIENTATION:FEMALE:100:0:0]
   [CASTE:MALE]
      [ORIENTATION:MALE:100:0:0]
      [ORIENTATION:FEMALE:0:0:100]

However, two years into my attempt at a generational fort, none of my single dwarves have acquired lovers, let alone got married.  Did I do something wrong?

-Dame de la Licorne

[Hugo_The_Dwarf]

MALE/FEMALE:disinterested chance:lover-possible chance:commitment-possible chance

need the middle value too so you want:

   [CASTE:FEMALE]
      [ORIENTATION:MALE:0:50:100]
      [ORIENTATION:FEMALE:100:0:0]
   [CASTE:MALE]
      [ORIENTATION:MALE:100:0:0]
      [ORIENTATION:FEMALE:0:50:100]

can't get married if you don't fall in love

[Roses]

I'm not sure if that is true, at least according to the wiki thats not how it seems.

The middle number is romantic interest without marriage.

[Hugo_The_Dwarf]

in DF love interest is needed before they get married.

no love interest (the lacking middle number) no way to form commitment

[sal880612m]

Pretty sure Toady said somewhere that the middle number wasn't necessary. An interest in marriage also meant an interest in lovers but an interest in lovers did not mean an interest in marriage.

[Roses]

Hmmm, then the wiki should be updated. It implies that a single roll is made and a dwarf is either disinterested, romantically interested, or commitedly interested. And that there is no overlap.

[Dame de la Licorne]

Hiya,

Pretty sure Toady said somewhere that the middle number wasn't necessary. An interest in marriage also meant an interest in lovers but an interest in lovers did not mean an interest in marriage.

That was my impression, but then why are none of my single dwarves getting romantic relationships?  (They all have appropriate age-mates.)

-Dame de la Licorne

[sal880612m]

Hmmm, then the wiki should be updated. It implies that a single roll is made and a dwarf is either disinterested, romantically interested, or commitedly interested. And that there is no overlap.

... You seem to be misunderstanding something somewhere. The interest level is more in the nature of how far the dwarf is willing to go in a relationship with disinterest being not entering one, romantically interested being taking a lover, and commitedly interested being willing to eventually marry a lover.

Hiya,

Pretty sure Toady said somewhere that the middle number wasn't necessary. An interest in marriage also meant an interest in lovers but an interest in lovers did not mean an interest in marriage.

That was my impression, but then why are none of my single dwarves getting romantic relationships?  (They all have appropriate age-mates.)

-Dame de la Licorne

I know Toady stated somewhere that the numbers in the orientation tag aren't percentages meaning Hugo's suggestions actually mean that there is a 2 in 3 chance of your dwarf being interested in marriage and a 1 in 3 chance of them not wanting to get married.

What about the other conditions? Have your dwarfs had any sort of idle time? Is there a meeting area, statue garden, well, or dining room in your fort? If your dwarfs aren't socializing their relationships won't progress.

[Putnam]

They add up to 100 in the default, but they aren't percentages.

[Roses]

Hmmm, then the wiki should be updated. It implies that a single roll is made and a dwarf is either disinterested, romantically interested, or commitedly interested. And that there is no overlap.

... You seem to be misunderstanding something somewhere. The interest level is more in the nature of how far the dwarf is willing to go in a relationship with disinterest being not entering one, romantically interested being taking a lover, and commitedly interested being willing to eventually marry a lover.

Like I said, the wiki should be updated then, it states clearly that a roll is made and a dwarf will fall somewhere in one of the three categories.

Code: [Select]

A one-time check is made for each creature to determine orientation, by "rolling a die" once for each sex, against the total of the three chances for that sex. If a given dwarf rolls "disinterested" for the same sex, and "commitment-possible" for the opposite sex, then that dwarf is strictly heterosexual, and is willing to become married. If the dwarf rolls "lover-possible" for each sex, then the dwarf is bisexual, but will never marry. And so on.

Implying that the middle number is not required for Dwarves to get married. And even that the middle number will limit the number of marriages. It even goes so far as to say

Code: [Select]

Adding [ORIENTATION:MALE:0:0:100] to females and [ORIENTATION:FEMALE:0:0:100] to males would effectively make them behave exclusively heterosexually with no interest whatsoever toward the same sex, like they did in previous versions.

[Dame de la Licorne]

Hiya,

[quote author=sal880612m link=topic=141129.msg5503823#msg5503823 date=
What about the other conditions? Have your dwarfs had any sort of idle time? Is there a meeting area, statue garden, well, or dining room in your fort? If your dwarfs aren't socializing their relationships won't progress.
[/quote]
These particular dwarfs haven't had a job (other than hauling stuff to the depot) since the first migrant wave (two and a half years ago, game time).  The meeting zone is a 1x1, to ensure that they all socialize (this is a generational fort, after all).  In the 34.xx versions and before, I'd have the vast majority of my single dwarves in a romantic relationship by now, but in this fort none of my 8 single dwarves are.  My only married dwarves migrated in with their spouses.

-Dame de la Licorne

[Putnam]

Hmmm, then the wiki should be updated. It implies that a single roll is made and a dwarf is either disinterested, romantically interested, or commitedly interested. And that there is no overlap.

... You seem to be misunderstanding something somewhere. The interest level is more in the nature of how far the dwarf is willing to go in a relationship with disinterest being not entering one, romantically interested being taking a lover, and commitedly interested being willing to eventually marry a lover.

Like I said, the wiki should be updated then, it states clearly that a roll is made and a dwarf will fall somewhere in one of the three categories.

Code: [Select]

A one-time check is made for each creature to determine orientation, by "rolling a die" once for each sex, against the total of the three chances for that sex. If a given dwarf rolls "disinterested" for the same sex, and "commitment-possible" for the opposite sex, then that dwarf is strictly heterosexual, and is willing to become married. If the dwarf rolls "lover-possible" for each sex, then the dwarf is bisexual, but will never marry. And so on.

Implying that the middle number is not required for Dwarves to get married. And even that the middle number will limit the number of marriages. It even goes so far as to say

Code: [Select]

Adding [ORIENTATION:MALE:0:0:100] to females and [ORIENTATION:FEMALE:0:0:100] to males would effectively make them behave exclusively heterosexually with no interest whatsoever toward the same sex, like they did in previous versions.

Then update it! It's a wiki.

[Roses]

I'm not sure what it should be updated to. If the middle number is required for marriages then testing should be done to determine the exact effect that the number has on the amount of Dwarves getting married.

For instance if using [0:50:100] then do 2/3 of dwarves get married and 1/3 just take lovers?
Then [0:1:99] 99% of dwarves should get married and only 1% just take lovers?
Shouldn't that mean that for [0:0:100] 100% of dwarves get married and 0% just take lovers?

Or does [0:50:100] mean that 1/2 of the dwarves take lovers, and of those 1/2 all of them get married? That wouldn't make sense unless the numbers were percentages which we know they are not.

EDIT: For pure logic, it would make sense that the wiki was right;
The first number means your interest is capped at "No Interest"
The second number means your interest is capped at "Lover"
The third number means your interest is capped at "Marriage"
Meaning that [0:0:100] should get you lovers with possibilities for marriages while [0:100:0] only gets you lovers

[Hugo_The_Dwarf]

I might be able to do some testing with this, will help if just setting marriage or relationship interest to 100/0 respectively make it so I don't need to add interactions to give sterile in game to prevent in fort population bursts. But does it effect world gen? and migrants that may be married already?

Might be interesting for making personalized castes (for various mental disorders Sociopath and antisocial, etc. So can mix and match personality traits with maybe loving but never setting down)

[sal880612m]

EDIT: For pure logic, it would make sense that the wiki was right;
The first number means your interest is capped at "No Interest"
The second number means your interest is capped at "Lover"
The third number means your interest is capped at "Marriage"
Meaning that [0:0:100] should get you lovers with possibilities for marriages while [0:100:0] only gets you lovers

This is close to my understanding except that in the first cases it isn't possibilities, all dwarves that become lovers should marry.

My comment was at Hugo the Dwarf saying that lover possibility needed a non-zero value.

The wiki does seem incomplete to me though. As a by caste tag it needs to be defined for each caste available. So I am uncertain whether

Code: [Select]

[CASTE:MALE]
    [ORIENTATION:FEMALE:0:0:100]
[CASTE:FEMALE]
    [ORIENTATION:MALE:0:0:100]

would result in the old behaviour because the lack of an orientation setting for the same caste results in the game assuming zero values or if it uses the default values instead. Essentially I am not sure whether the above guarantees heterosexuality only or just that heterosexuality will always be present but the possibility for same-sex relationships still exists.

Code: [Select]

[CASTE:MALE]
    [ORIENTATION:FEMALE:0:0:1]
    [ORIENTATION:MALE:1:0:0]
[CASTE:FEMALE]
    [ORIENTATION:MALE:0:0:1]
    [ORIENTATION:FEMALE:1:0:0]

This should guarantee that all dwarfs will eventually take lovers and get married to a dwarf of the opposite gender provided the other marriage conditions are met.