I have returned after... I think a full week or pretty close. Ouch.
So first off, I disapprove of antagonizing our new shenanigans pet by murdering him. Even if he can't pull off the full townie time stop, I don't see any particular reason to soften him up right now.
Secondly, I approve of naively and optimistically trying it, wide-eyed and hopeful that we've just broken the game over three players' knees.
To more personal business, I'm going to very reluctantly
unvote Cheeetar. I'm too frazzled in this game to get a good read on him anyway, but I was starting to suspect he was flailing notscum back when I was relatively active and reading over his
thing seems to loosely be more of the same.
MBP:And, i'll have to vote Tiruin. That ability is better serving the scum. They don't need fancy things, when they can just nightkill easily while town/sk has trouble doing anything.
What does scum "not needing fancy things" have to do with inconveniencing a lot of other people?
Tiruin, i'm voting you because i can't understand how that panic could be a town ability. Complete Lockdown is WAY too strong for a townie, especially when another of the townies had the ability to combo with it. The only way to balance this would be scum that could ignore it, which would make the ability basically useless and an hindrance to town.
But, as a scum tool, it's strong but counterable. Indeed, the random chance could be used to defeat it, and the combo could not be used, and after a few turn the game'd be back to normal.
It's a completely meta analysis, but i can't see your actions as Town, and so you get my vote.
Did you miss
this? Surely murdering every other player in the game is weaker than a 50% roleblock debuff with a 50% chance to fade each night? I'd even peg 13 players as harder to hit than N4, at that. There was, unless I'm missing something, a pretty decent chance of her never getting to use it at all.
I don't understand your issues with the combo, either. Why would this make perfect sense as a scum ability but not as a town ability, with the chance thing in the hands of a townie but stealable on death by a survivor?
Heh, that's true. But i do fear that then it would advantage them. They got a survivor they can keep around, and Panic with him render rolecopping moot. If they get 2-3 favorable lynch they got it golden. And the further we go, the easier it will be fore them, knowing what sides they are on and all.
And what the hell is
this all about? You're worried that if Toaster turns on us AND scum gets 2-3 free lynches we're going to lose? Why even bother with that kind of scenario?
I've seen, 4 times now, that giving both the PANIC and Probability alterance to town is ridiculous. If Wubbah did this, then whenever panic is launched, the probability guy can simply decide to completely lockdown the night game forever, until lynched or killed by someone that is somehow immune to panic. This is grossly overpowered. Giving both the keys to a complete night lockdown combo to town is ridiculous. Like, not happening. Rather, i believe that Panic is a scum ability. Powerful, sow confusion, but does not make the game completely unplayable. Town has a counter, game is not automatically broken.
This is better, but it relies on a town massclaim, everyone trusting each other, and there being no other counters to it. A better question might be whether Panic would really be so useless. You can only use it IF- not when- the player count is exactly 13, it's a day ability so it can't catch anyone unawares, and it targets everyone so everyone is likely to realize at some point that it's been used. Then it's just a matter of its town counter deciding to block everyone he doesn't trust and let everyone he does trust off the hook? How is that a specific-situation scum one-shot?
And for that matter, care to explain how a scum had a miller ability?
Simply because if the survivor decide to side with scum, late in the game he'll have a plethora of auto. He already got a revive from it, he could very well get a auto lockdown or some other power that would make lynching him harder for town, like a double vote or somesuch. So, the later in the game it gets, the harder he will likely be to lynch.
This is a fair point, though. If we
are going to murder Toaster- and I still approve of not- we're better off doing it sooner rather than later.
Toaster:Clarification is in; we are go for lockdown. I sent in the request to lock down everyone, pending further plans being made.
*town-survivor brofist*
Cheeetar:Idea: Seeing as Toaster already has a revive, we should lynch him today so if he lets us down tonight (aka townies die) we won't have to spend another two days lynching him for town to have a chance in the night phase.
Good? Bad?
Bad for four reasons.
One, going all Evil Overlord on our new minion is probably unwise. Executing your best asset for failing you once tends to not work out very well.
Two, a wasted lynch is a wasted lynch. I don't see why pushing it forward saves us anything.
Three, if it
does work it'll have wasted a lynch pre-emptively. That's even less productive.
Four, we'd be softening him up for a scumkill. I'd much rather our new pet remain well-armored until such time as we declare him a treacherous cur, which he's likely smart enough to avoid.
If the scum have some way to bypass the lock, we need to get rid of you anyway (your lock down is useless to everyone except scum and you have no reason to side with us.) As a survivor, your death is not a big loss to town. If that's the only catch- unvote Varee, vote Toaster.
I'd disagree on this, too. He's got a very good reason to side with us- we'll lynch him if he's anything below neutral, and possibly if he's anything below helpful.
Furthermore, I doubt scum have a teamwide ability that lets them bypass the lock. Even if they have a counter to it, I suspect it's not going to be a complete and total counter that renders the whole idea worthless.
TWS:Can someone sum up all the important stuff please? 67 pages is a lot.
Aw hell.
The main hubbub at the beginning of the game was flabort panicking and putting Shakerag and Cheeetar at L-1 to hammer. Cheeetar instantly murdered Shakerag, who turned out to be an SK-ally.
Night came, no nightkills, we had merry discussions about the exact ramifications of Cheeetar's little incident. flabort was eventually murdered himself and flipped town.
Then... I lurked for a while, and when I came back Toaster was an ability-scavenging survivor who now has NQT's old ability that lets him mess with chance-based things at will. Tiruin used an AOE ability that applied Panic to everyone, meaning now in theory Toaster can just perma-lock the night.
TolyK claims rolecop, so the current plan is some shade of having Toaster obliterate the night phase for anyone but TolyK, who inspects people one by one. Obvious flaws in this plan include that wubsy has
probably not overlooked the possibility of this combo and therefore someone unpleasant somewhere is probably able to counter it in some fashion.
Other than that, Varee's useless and has supposedly been granting people extra abilities each night but we don't know where they've gone. MBP and Tiruin got into a spat about Tiruin's Panic ability, and... that's all I can remember.
I was probably not the very best candidate to bring you up to speed.
Author
Topic: BYOR 13 - Game Over: Thirteen (Read 260010 times)