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[flabort]

@NQT: Not completely, but relatively sure.

@Flabort: Why... are you buddying me? I understand that I'm more or less defending you, but why are you voting Cheeetar right after me? And giving me advice on when to reveal. Individually, each would be fine, but all together it starts to worry me.
And you know, eh. Meh.

Not buddying. Agreeing with you, but not trying to connect us. You're trying to connect us with that "I made him promise" thing, that's buddying. I'm just agreeing with you about another point.
I voted Cheeetar... because I think you laid down the tying vote? I do eventually want the SK dead anyways, but I don't want a tie to result in a nonlynch, and by casting my vote back on Cheeetar, I prevent a tie vote.
Let's check. Wuba, can we get a votecount?

Third parties aren't house pets, TolyK. You can't put Flabort on a leash and expect him to do what you want, and that you expect us to trust you that you have him under control because of a verbal agreement is a bit silly.

I AM FLABORT, IMMORTAL DEMILICH AND SACK OF POTATOES IN MY SPARE TIME.
Yeah, no, he's right; my actions can't be controlled by anyone; I stick to guidelines for the good of my wincon, though, and since that wincon is kill all antitown, my actions are in the best interests of anyone else with that same wincon (TOWN). So I'll just keep doing what I do, and town will win. I have agreed not to do anymore things that could be super risky or result in distractions, but I won't turn off my brain or tame down because of it.
You are wrong about me being third party, though. I am town.

You believe a survivor would have those abilities?

One or the other, but not both, I think. The Dream would fit on any alignment, but for the vote control and revive, I think both together could only go on a Towny. Though, as certain someones are prone to remind me, we can't predict what Wuba considers balanced powers for any given alignment.

A survivor would.
Policy lynching survivors is a thing.

It is, because more often then not they switch sides and start helping scum so that they won't get killed.
As a member of the town, I won't and cannot do that.
A Survivor would be afraid of revealing to the town because of that policy. There are some players that try to help town out even if it's easier to side with scum as a third party, but the policy still stands.

[IronyOwl]

Extend. I think the current lull is due more to weekend than malaise.


Cheeetar, I hate to add more to the pile, but:

Everyone How would you use a day-kill as town? How would you use a day-kill as scum? Do you have the day-kill? Is it a one-shot or an auto that triggers on extend?

As town, I'd like to use it to kill people who were certain that they knew somebody was scum for reasons unknown. Either they'd flip as non-town, in which case we could disregard their claim, or they'd flip as town and we'd be able to lynch a scum. As scum, I guess I'd kill people who claimed investigator, or those who might discover me- preferably towards the start of the day before they'd posted too much.

So you'd use your daykill identically whether you were scum or town?


flabort:

I'm too lazy to dig up the exact quotes, but I seem to remember you explaining that:
-You set up the lynch because it'd avoid suspicion
-You set up the lynch because you didn't know you could just hammer someone

Did you lie? I can go find the exact quotes I'm thinking of if necessary.

No, I didn't lie. I don't lie to town as town; the worst I do is omit information and distract from certain issues (often, it turns out, important issues).
And yeah, that's pretty much the summary of why I did it.

But these are two different, conflicting reasons. First you stated that you didn't hammer either of them in part to avoid drawing suspicion to yourself, then you said you weren't aware double-hammering them was an option. Which is it?

If they were town they would have claimed.
They were trying to appear town by using it as an extra lynch; however, having not claimed yet, I believe that they are trying to protect themselves from other members of the town; the possibility that they are hiding from scum instead exists but is a slim chance.
Also, the first thing I did after being daykilled is declare the day-kill to be a scum ability, which may have scared whoever did it into not claiming.

So your theory is that a townie murdered you to appear town, then clammed up about it to hide from their fellow townies.

Why?

Personally, I suspect Nerjin of having the day kill, but I guess I could ask some more questions to make you happy. I feel really awful issuing a blanket question, though.

Everyone How would you use a day-kill as town? How would you use a day-kill as scum? Do you have the day-kill? Is it a one-shot or an auto that triggers on extend?

Would it be fair to say that you've done all the work you intend to today, then? What about tomorrow, are you likely to perform any scumhunting for the sake of finding scum then?


NQT, why were you rolefishing TolyK? What's your current case on flabort?


Varee:

I have a feeling that extending is like voting for no lynch.
From the day one thing that flabort got kill during extend i have a feeling that someone have an ability to kill when we vote extend.
Pisud mai dai

Interesting theory. Are you concerned enough about it to recommend that we avoid extending this game? Why do you feel like extending is voting nolynch?

Who are your current suspects?


Tiruin:

Is there any chance of the Flabort wagon being shifted with the extend? Are any of you actually going to make use of your extra time? I see a lot of knee-jerk extending on this forum. Oppose Extend, if possible.

You didn't have to cope with [RL SIGNIFICANT DIFFICULTIES] >_>

*sympathetic pat*

Who are your current suspects, if any? If you had to vote for someone right now, who would it be?


TolyK:

Pfp at dialup speeds. It's painful ;(

Alright, uh. Cheeetar, you seem to want me dead both ways. I like that in that you're so open about it.
I'm giving you guys all the info you could actually use without extra info getting to the scum. I do not want to be lynched right now, obviously, but this is in case scum kill me this day/night. I will claim tomorrow (in-game time), but I can today if you really really really want me to.

Oh, and Flabort's a neutral third party, which probably means survivor, which is why I told him to not wreck stuff. If you feel that lynching a survivor over scum like Cheeetar or Extend is profitable, by all means.

And you're sure?


Nerjin, what's your stance on third parties? Would discovering that flabort was indeed third party change your opinion of him?

[flabort]

flabort:

I'm too lazy to dig up the exact quotes, but I seem to remember you explaining that:
-You set up the lynch because it'd avoid suspicion
-You set up the lynch because you didn't know you could just hammer someone

Did you lie? I can go find the exact quotes I'm thinking of if necessary.

No, I didn't lie. I don't lie to town as town; the worst I do is omit information and distract from certain issues (often, it turns out, important issues).
And yeah, that's pretty much the summary of why I did it.

But these are two different, conflicting reasons. First you stated that you didn't hammer either of them in part to avoid drawing suspicion to yourself, then you said you weren't aware double-hammering them was an option. Which is it?

How did those contradict? I didn't KNOW that I COULD kill both, so the only options I were aware of were pick and kill one, or kill neither.
So I chose not to pick and kill one in order to avoid suspicion. IronyOwl, those two things do not contradict. Yes, they are different reasons. No, they don't contradict.
For example, you can be a girl and interested in the internet, those are two different things but they don't contradict.

If they were town they would have claimed.
They were trying to appear town by using it as an extra lynch; however, having not claimed yet, I believe that they are trying to protect themselves from other members of the town; the possibility that they are hiding from scum instead exists but is a slim chance.
Also, the first thing I did after being daykilled is declare the day-kill to be a scum ability, which may have scared whoever did it into not claiming.

So your theory is that a townie murdered you to appear town, then clammed up about it to hide from their fellow townies.

Why?

So my theory is that if whoever killed me was town, they would have claimed.
Since they didn't, my theory is that it was an anti-town that killed me, trying to look town, then clammed up about it because they're anti-town.

Personally, I suspect Nerjin of having the day kill, but I guess I could ask some more questions to make you happy. I feel really awful issuing a blanket question, though.

Everyone How would you use a day-kill as town? How would you use a day-kill as scum? Do you have the day-kill? Is it a one-shot or an auto that triggers on extend?

Would it be fair to say that you've done all the work you intend to today, then? What about tomorrow, are you likely to perform any scumhunting for the sake of finding scum then?

For day 2? Day 3? Yeah, I know two anti-towns for sure, and am fairly confident about two more. So I intend to press all four and look for any more while I'm at it. As stated before, these four are Cheeetar, Nerjin, Jack, Scripten.
That's four days worth of lynches, during which I will spend some time pressing anyone who remains.
So yes, tomorrow I will spend more time looking for more suspects, and I will spend some time today pressing my current suspects.

[Cheeetar]

Cheeetar, I hate to add more to the pile, but:
So you'd use your daykill identically whether you were scum or town?

Naw. I'd use the daykill as town to get rid of people who were being cagey despite being 'certain' they knew who scum was. I'd use it as scum to avoid detection. As town: to confirm/disprove suspicious stuff ("I am certain this person is scum but I will not tell you why!"). As scum: Get rid of people who are good at Mafia and spotting scum (kill Tiruin start of Day 1 before she has the chance to post, and from then on anybody who might be investigatorily powered.)

[Nerjin]

I'm super tired. Might have missed something or another.

Nerjin, what's your stance on third parties? Would discovering that flabort was indeed third party change your opinion of him?

Third parties that can win WITH town I'm all in favor of. But if they can win without town [or can only win with mafia] they need to be killed. It sucks. Makes me feel like a jerk. But I'd rather town win than some third party wins.

@Flabort

I would appreciate it if you would be so kind as to provide evidence for your 'theories'.

[TolyK]

@Irony: Sure enough to present it here. Given everyone truthfully claiming, I'd be dead sure.

[TolyK]

Also, I tired the vote? Really? Who was voting Cheeetar before me?

Yes, vote count pls.

[Jack A T]

Impression I'm getting: everyone's having real life stuff going on.  I'm tired, I'm a bit nervous about a lynch that seems less likely to kill, I'm going to be out of town for much of Monday, and this game is a mess.  Extend.

Everyone who is voting Flabort: Do you believe that Flabort does have a regenerating revive?

Why do you say that Shakerag was probably the best possible D1 lynch target?

Imp: Had we lynched anyone else, Shakerag's powers would have been quite disruptive and town-damaging for the entire game, concealing the alignments and powers of both the D1 lynch and the N1 killed.

[stuff about real life omitted]
Also, don't say "Seemingly Selective Quoting" when what you mean is "Selective Quoting". If you want to accuse me of something just accuse me of it and be done with this. There is never enough time in mafia to be beating around the bush like that.

Nerjin: When I have significant doubts and wish to show where they are, I will show where they are.  I'm not one for acting more certain than I am, as I find it looks ridiculous when others do it.

MBP: I asked you some questions.  Do answer them.

TolyK: Quick question: Which of your assorted statements on people are statements of facts you know, and which are statements of your nonconfirmed beliefs?  I'm having trouble recognizing which is which when you differentiate minimally.

Posturing (Verb): To position, especially strategically. To develop a policy or stance for (Oneself, a company, government, etc)

flabort: Not the definition intended.  The one intended is more like "(verb): 1. To assume an exaggerated or unnatural pose or mental attitude; attitudinize."

Why those specific groups? Because those are focuses that I specifically made sure weren't focused on earlier.

...but why those specific groups?  Explain why you selected each group.  Separate explanations for each group, please.

Everyone How would you use a day-kill as town? How would you use a day-kill as scum? Do you have the day-kill? Is it a one-shot or an auto that triggers on extend?

As town: If there were some person I 100% knew to be scum, I would daykill them.  Aside from that, the lynch target near the end of a day is reasonable if people haven't been setting up night action plans in thread.  However, to limit town use of daykills to being based on the collective claimed suspicions of the full player set is to limit them excessively.  Another approach I could take early in the game (and only early) is elimination of a major suspect, or (really early) a lurker.  All daykill decisions would be based on the situation at the time, and a single universal daykill plan for town me does not exist.
As scum: I could try to act like town me, or I could kill a dangerous townie, or I could save it for LYLO.  This all depends heavily on the situation at hand.
I do not have the daykill.

What does my deviation from TolyK's answer tell you about me?  What does NQT's deviation from TolyK's answer tell you about him?

Also, the first thing I did after being daykilled is declare the day-kill to be a scum ability, which may have scared whoever did it into not claiming.

Considering the overwhelming majority of players here have experience in BYORs, and should already know that daykills can easily be and have been town abilities, I doubt that this had much of an effect.

For day 2? Day 3? Yeah, I know two anti-towns for sure, and am fairly confident about two more. So I intend to press all four and look for any more while I'm at it. As stated before, these four are Cheeetar, Nerjin, Jack, Scripten.

Oh, hey, the allegations again.  You keep on making these claims.   Back them up.   Or are they as lacking in substance as your assertions that your scumminess was really you manipulating everyone into not looking at each other and just focusing on you (which is totally in the interests of the town)?

[Cheeetar]

Everyone who is voting Flabort: Do you believe that Flabort does have a regenerating revive?

Nope!

[TolyK]

@Jack: I don't know how many revives he has, but it could possibly be a lot, if he really is a survivor.
But in that case we do have a vigilante, imo.

Also, all of my suspicions are at least partially confirmed by fact. I agree that it's a lot, but given that I consider myself intelligent enough, I would follow those percentages (at least their relative positioning) if you believe my claims at least partially.

NQT, by the way, why do you oppose that extension? Want to end the day quicker, so that people get less time to consider what I and others have said?

[notquitethere]

Pfp, will aim to post something substantial a bit later when I'm not meant to be working. Just quickly: Toly, I already explained why in the same post as I knew someone would ask that question.

[Cheeetar]

TolyK, surely you don't think that merely asserting things is sufficient for people to believe you, or consider what you've said?

[TolyK]

@NQT, right, I missed that from memory. It doesn't really suit me, but what the hell.

@Cheeetar, obviously I don't expect most people to believe me, but considering what I'm saying is obviously necessary in order to play best. For the who you are not me, you obviously should take it with a soon of salt, but just throwing it away is nonsense. You sure seem to be trying to convince people into doing illogical things - first shooting people who are trying to give information, then trying to tell people to disregard it (not directly, that would be too obvious).
It also seems that this hostility is towards me alone, at this point - are you a lyncher?

[notquitethere]

Flabort

NQT why would you use it on me? Is there anyone else you would use it on if I were an invalid target?
Who are your top suspects right now?

I already said: to make the best use of the day. To get some info from lynch target before we lynch them so the rest of the day can be spent using that info. Killing anyone would be helpful, there's too many living to get any kind of handle on alignments. I'll get back to you about suspects.

TolyK It was literally in the same damn post!

Oh but NQT, you rascal, why are you trying to stifle discussion?

Drawn out days are bad for overall player morale. Town will perform better if the game doesn't slow to a crawl. I see this like I do boardgames where people are taking forever to take their move.

Varee

So Here is what happen last night. I tried build a house for toaster liek what flabort suggested. But form the other info, there a few thing that could have happen.
1 Toaster is lying and he got a new power but he is lying( Well i dont think he is lying but it is possible)
    This lead to two other possiblity

Did we get to the bottom of this?

Is there any reason this power would fail on you, Toaster?

Silthuri

I haven't done shit today and you know it. I haven't made a single contribution this day until now. I'm having severe RL issues and still trying to play this game. Sorry if this is impeding your scumhunting because you feel the need to focus on little old me.

(Sorry life stuff is tough: I'm sending positive thought beams in what I imagine to be your general direction.)

I have a need to focus on everyone. You're as likely as anyone to be scum. Remember, it's not a crime to replace out if you don't the time to play.


More in a bit

[TolyK]

I said that my memory forgot that - as in, I had forgotten the second part, other than the oppose part.

I'm also interested in Varee and Toaster and the house, and how anything that could've changed anything.