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Author Topic: BYOR 13 - Game Over: Thirteen  (Read 259370 times)

notquitethere

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Re: BYOR 13 - Day 2: Not Today
« Reply #510 on: August 14, 2014, 06:11:42 pm »

Flabort
I guess I can get lynched and killed if it will tell you the truth about who's who and what's what.
Cheeetar is the SK. Nerjin is Scum with a night kill and a once-per-day vote reset, plus the one-shot daykill. Jack A T is his scumbuddy. Scripten is either a third scum or another third party.
Hold on a moment, how can you make such bold pronouncements? Where are you pulling these hyper-precise claims from? Not from your three claimed powers, that's for sure. Speak quick, you're at L-1 by my count.

TolyK
I do think I know who isn't scum.
Please enlighten us!

Varee
You've not done a damn thing all game besides flailing a bit and chatting about houses. Make a case!

MBP, yeah I get the fact you're replacing in and Jiokuy didn't even post, but your grace period is now up. Make a case!

Wolf, your play always sets off alarm bells for me but it's doing it double. Your Day 1 play was soft balls, soft balls everywhere. Like here where you drop a nascent case on Cheetah for another RVS question vote. Who's the worst player in the game right now?

Everyone not voting Flabort: What do you think of the arguments for lynching Flabort?  Why do you believe a different target would be a better choice?
He's probably a spent force, power-wise, but he's also incredibly sketchy. I wouldn't be sad to see him go, but I'd rather get rid of players that are trying to coast along.

I believe that Cheeetar and Flabort are both scum
So you think Flabort colluded with Cheetah in scum chat to put him at L-1 so he could then do the hammering. It's possible.

Jack, your playing fine. Do I have any outstanding questions from you?

Imp, you can be thorough when you want to be but who are you going to vote today?

Cheetah, your first case was nonsense and your play has continued to be self-serving since. Give us a reason not to hang you now.

Ironyowl, your flying just below the radar, with a damn narrow focus. I don't trust you. Tell me one thing that's happening in this game that I should be paying attention to.

Nerjin, behind your Presidential bluster you've been light on cases of substance. What do you think of the players that have received less attention like Irony, Imp, MPB?

Silthuri, by my count you made one case on Day 1 and have done bugger all of use today. Unless I'm missing something? Please point out a recent contribution you've made that brings us closer to lynching scum.

Toaster, does your gut still say Flabort like it did yesterday?

Persus13, Scripten, I don't have anything to say to you two right now. Do you have anything to say to me?

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Nerjin

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Re: BYOR 13 - Day 2: Not Today
« Reply #511 on: August 14, 2014, 06:23:23 pm »

Nerjin, behind your Presidential bluster you've been light on cases of substance. What do you think of the players that have received less attention like Irony, Imp, MPB?

Silthuri, by my count you made one case on Day 1 and have done bugger all of use today. Unless I'm missing something? Please point out a recent contribution you've made that brings us closer to lynching scum.

Light on... Are you... Have you READ my posts? I've been making post after post discussing [logically mind you] why Flabort is scum. As for those three? I don't have a read on them.

I'd like to ask what contributions YOU'VE made to finding scum though since you apparently believe yourself to have done such an excellent job.

I've been overwhelmed with a lot of other things. Now CYOM2 has ended, I'm going to give this more focus, starting with tonight... I've survived until Day 2 which means *rolls up sleeves in real life* time for some analysis.

I don't see a case here. I see no analysis. I see a bunch of lame duck questions where you just sorta lob stuff at the wall to see what sticks. You've said, time and again, that you want to 'kill people who are coasting along'. That's fine and good. EXCEPT FOR THE FACT THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE ACTING LIKE SCUM ALREADY!!!

Should we just not lynch suspicious people, who are actively posting suspicious things, in favor of the people who aren't posting at all? That seems rather like coasting by to me.

Oh wait... You said that's something you're against!

Maybe make a case as for why we should ignore players like Flabort and instead focus on people who aren't posting anything one way or the other.
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4maskwolf

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Re: BYOR 13 - Day 2: Not Today
« Reply #512 on: August 14, 2014, 06:24:54 pm »

This is getting ridiculous. Flabort is OMGUS-y scum and I'm becoming more and more certain that 4mask is his scumbuddy. (Can you summarize your suspicions? The thread is really long and my time is limited lately. Would be appreciative.)
Lolz if I was his scumbuddy my vote would be solidly stuck on him.  You were in the last game I was scum, you saw what I did to my scumbuddies.

My suspicions of who?

Wolf, your play always sets off alarm bells for me but it's doing it double. Your Day 1 play was soft balls, soft balls everywhere. Like here where you drop a nascent case on Cheetah for another RVS question vote. Who's the worst player in the game right now?

Everyone not voting Flabort: What do you think of the arguments for lynching Flabort?  Why do you believe a different target would be a better choice?
He's probably a spent force, power-wise, but he's also incredibly sketchy. I wouldn't be sad to see him go, but I'd rather get rid of players that are trying to coast along.

I believe that Cheeetar and Flabort are both scum
So you think Flabort colluded with Cheetah in scum chat to put him at L-1 so he could then do the hammering. It's possible.
Well, obviously I'm the worst player.  I always am.  But other than me... worst as in poor play or worst as in not doing anything worth a damn.  Because I have two different answers, depending.

When I say scum, I mean "anti-town".  I'm pretty sure the two of them are NOT on the same team, or at least not knowingly.  Flabort's play reminds me a little bit of Imperial Guardsmen's play in Supernatural 7, when he freaked out as sk and flailed wildly.  My best guess is he is anti-town without backup.

flabort

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Re: BYOR 13 - Day 2: Not Today
« Reply #513 on: August 14, 2014, 06:39:19 pm »

Imp At the time of my first attempt to vote-ato, I thought I would have one vote on each. The same was my belief for my second attempt, after Wuba PMed me to explain the ability a bit more. However, I hadn't really used the full potential of the ability, so Wuba PMed me again to explain more, and I STILL did not realize it's full potential, and voted 8 times each for those two.
I'm fairly certain Wuba only let me change the votes because he was letting me slide and he had just clarified it to me by PM. He didn't say anything about actually being able to change it at will.

It may be clear to you how I had complete control over the situation, but I did not understand that I did at the time. It's fairly evident that I felt fear from two votes, because nobody else had gathered any after Nerjin reset the votes yet. I am a rather short-sighted person, using only the tools I perceive at the times I perceive them. I could not see the rest of the 48 hours going any better then the previous hours had, causing me to panic.

I don't see the rest of the game going well if you continue to lynch me.

Nerjin So if what I thought your case was is not your case, then what on earth is your case? Because if it's not my doublestandards and setting up the loaded guns, then I don't see what you're saying. To me, your denial of me being correct on that sounds like scum.
Also, that was NOT how much effort I was putting in; that is how much effort I was SHOWING.

Flabort
I guess I can get lynched and killed if it will tell you the truth about who's who and what's what.
Cheeetar is the SK. Nerjin is Scum with a night kill and a once-per-day vote reset, plus the one-shot daykill. Jack A T is his scumbuddy. Scripten is either a third scum or another third party.
Hold on a moment, how can you make such bold pronouncements? Where are you pulling these hyper-precise claims from? Not from your three claimed powers, that's for sure. Speak quick, you're at L-1 by my count.
Observation of the individuals, responses to tests (such as my name-calling), their reactions to events (Nerjin's subtle reaction to the daykill cinched the belief that it's his), vote analysis. More background work then abilities or question asking. Subtly manipulating one person to ignore another and looking at their reaction when this person is brought back into their perception.
Basically, giving everyone enough potatoes to bury themselves with and watching what they do with them.
PPE: For example Nerjin's post about how he has a null read on the three people you mentioned. I had manipulated him into ignoring most of the crowd in favor of tunnel visioning on me. Now that you bring them up, he dismisses them as nothing; he doesn't care about spreading out his scum-hunting, he doesn't care about those three. He feels that they are inconsequential to his goal as scum.
Or 4mask's post in reply to Scripten, or more specifically Scripten's post that 4mask is replying to. It shows that 4mask is at large falsely suspect by Scripten, who is also tunnel-visioning, but on less of a scale, in order to further his own goals. Showing that Scripten is possibly a survivor, watcher, or lyncher, if he isn't aligned with Nerjin.
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notquitethere

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Re: BYOR 13 - Day 2: Not Today
« Reply #514 on: August 14, 2014, 06:44:13 pm »

Nerjin
Light on... Are you... Have you READ my posts? I've been making post after post discussing [logically mind you] why Flabort is scum. As for those three? I don't have a read on them.
Yeah, what I'm saying is you've been very tunnely. Now you'll be super vindicated if Flabort does flip scum, but if he doesn't you'll have wasted two days ignoring everyone else.

I'd like to ask what contributions YOU'VE made to finding scum though since you apparently believe yourself to have done such an excellent job.
Quite the contrary, I admitted I'd not been giving this game my full focus. I've still managed to develop a few lines of suspicion. I gave Tiruin's claim a good grilling and I'm beginning to get back on track again.

I don't see a case here. I see no analysis. I see a bunch of lame duck questions where you just sorta lob stuff at the wall to see what sticks. You've said, time and again, that you want to 'kill people who are coasting along'. That's fine and good. EXCEPT FOR THE FACT THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE ACTING LIKE SCUM ALREADY!!!

Should we just not lynch suspicious people, who are actively posting suspicious things, in favor of the people who aren't posting at all? That seems rather like coasting by to me.
Flabort's at L-1, I'm not going to hammer him right now. So I'm questioning him. I'm developing cases, sure my cases are mostly such-and-such a player is not really contributing but being unable to form suspicions and place votes outside of RVS is the big scum tell. I've looked over a lot of games to ascertain this. But I'm glad you're getting riled up. Says good things about your engagement. You've got a lot of investment in this.

Maybe make a case as for why we should ignore players like Flabort and instead focus on people who aren't posting anything one way or the other.
It's more that, I don't want to focus solely on Flabort. Manipulating the attention of the town is how scum survive until the mid to late game with very little scrutiny. Also, I believe Flabort's power claims, so killing him would net me less info than someone else.

Tiruin, now that you've acquainted yourself with what happened, what's your take on Flaborts Day 1 behaviour?

Wolf, yeah that's not a bad comparison. But look, Cheetah is most likely not scum. He's got the most posts in the whole game. He makes cases. He came off badly at the end of Day 1, but you can't really think he's coming off worst in either sense, right?

Flabort, I'd like to see that vote analysis if it really exists. Are you taking notes? Without providing evidence for these claims (linked posts etc.) I can only conclude you're pulling them out of thin air to make you seem more observant than you have been. If you have been taking notes, give us a screenshot of your spreadsheet.
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Cheeetar

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Re: BYOR 13 - Day 2: Not Today
« Reply #515 on: August 14, 2014, 06:56:13 pm »

Nerjin I for one am stunned that my president has not consulted with his script writer prior to posting- these heavily uncensored and realistic dialogues with the people are scaring me.

I guess I can get lynched and killed if it will tell you the truth about who's who and what's what.
Cheeetar is the SK. Nerjin is Scum with a night kill and a once-per-day vote reset, plus the one-shot daykill. Jack A T is his scumbuddy. Scripten is either a third scum or another third party.

Excellent! Now we know who everyone is- we confirm that you're telling the truth by lynching you, and we can then lynch and vig the third parties and scum. Flabort should be happy to be lynched in this circumstance, right?
Would you agree, Irony Owl?

Lolz if I was his scumbuddy my vote would be solidly stuck on him.  You were in the last game I was scum, you saw what I did to my scumbuddies.

Appealing to your own meta from a game in which you lost and people were angry about your bussing? I'm not falling for it, 4maskwolf.

Spoiler: Imp (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: 4maskwolf (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: notquitethere (click to show/hide)
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webadict

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Re: BYOR 13: Vote Count
« Reply #516 on: August 14, 2014, 07:04:39 pm »

Hopefully this is right. If not, let me know.

Vote Count
------------------------
4maskwolf -
Cheeetar - 4maskwolf, IronyOwl,
flabort - Cheeetar, Nerjin, Persus13, Scripten, Tiruin,
Imp -
IronyOwl -
Jack A T -
Mysteriousbluepuppet -
Nerjin - flabort,
notquitethere -
Persus13 -
Scripten - Toaster,
Silthuri -
Tiruin -
Toaster -
TolyK -
Varee - notquitethere,

Not Voting - Imp, Mysteriousbluepuppet, Silthuri, TolyK, Varee, Jack A T,

9 To Hammer. Day ends Monday 7 PMish CST.
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notquitethere

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Re: BYOR 13 - Day 2: Not Today
« Reply #517 on: August 14, 2014, 07:44:18 pm »

Yeah, my count was off. Jack was voting Flabort yesterday but hasn't done so today. Why no votes, Jack?
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Persus13

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Re: BYOR 13 - Day 2: Not Today
« Reply #518 on: August 14, 2014, 07:47:48 pm »

Yeah, my count was off. Jack was voting Flabort yesterday but hasn't done so today. Why no votes, Jack?
As was TolyK. So I'd like him to answer the same question.
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IronyOwl

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Re: BYOR 13 - Day 2: Not Today
« Reply #519 on: August 14, 2014, 08:03:54 pm »

Cheeetar:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


KAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


flabort:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


TolyK:
I missed this.
Imp, TolyK, CAPTAIN EAGLES, Varee: If you were in Cheeetar or Shakerag's position yesterday, would you have hammered the other choice as quickly as you could have? If you'd gotten on before either of them, would you have immediately hammered whichever one of them you liked or trusted least? Why?
Actually, it isn't prisoners dilemma in that both players could call each other in, not was it a simultaneous game. (this is in response to Imp's post as well). It's a sequential game of inequality, all of us are players and only two would be punished completely. Thus, hammering is the only option in this scenario.
What? How does that follow?


4mask:
Everyone not voting Flabort: What do you think of the arguments for lynching Flabort?  Why do you believe a different target would be a better choice?
I think they're pretty solid in general, though I strongly disagree with the "everything Cheeetar did is flabort's fault because he had absolutely no choice" line of reasoning. It also loosely feels like there's something more bold about flabort's panicking than Cheeetar's, which pushes my own suspicions closer to Cheeetar.

I think Cheeetar's the better lynch because he's been openly and unabashedly self-serving to a much greater degree. To some extent that's probably just because he's opened his mouth more, but he's displayed absolutely zero shame or remorse for what he did, and tried to justify it retroactively with the fact that Shakerag wasn't town. flabort at least acknowledges that what he did was panicky and desperate and probably not a great idea at least in the long run, and gets the actual points for correctly guessing at least one of his targets.

Which I mean, I feel like I could almost make a whole separate point about. flabort hasn't gone particularly overboard in saying "BOOYAH I WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG SUCK IT BITCHES RIGHT MOVE RIGHT MOVE AWWWWWWWW YEAAAAAAAAAAH!" Cheeetar clearly has; every time he opens his mouth, he can't help but gloat over how fortunate we are to have killed an SK Ally and/or how right he was to quicklynch because Shak wasn't town and therefore would have done the same. Even ignoring the rather obvious issue of knowing that what he did wasn't townlike because he knows nontown would have been more likely to do it, he's reveling in something he had absolutely no intentional hand in, whereas the person who actually pinpointed scum seems to know it wasn't a great move he can use as an omnishield against any and all suspicion.

On the other hand, of course, flabort's talk of being functionally invincible doesn't sit well with me.


NQT:
Ironyowl, your flying just below the radar, with a damn narrow focus. I don't trust you. Tell me one thing that's happening in this game that I should be paying attention to.
You seem to have covered all the ones I know of. Cheeetar's being incredibly self-serving, flabort's crashing and burning, Varee's being useless and I haven't had a chance to go back and see how normal that is...

Conversely, thank you for reminding me that Silthuri exists.


So I seem to be in the minority here (I think Jack backed me up as well, but didn't notice it in this pass), but Imp encapsulates my reasoning on this rather well.
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flabort

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Re: BYOR 13 - Day 2: Not Today
« Reply #520 on: August 14, 2014, 08:20:13 pm »

Sorry, have to do chores so not enough time to do this post all at once; that's why it's late.

Hmmm... so I'm not at T-1 like suspected, but T-4. That's some nice subtle manipulation yourself, there, NQT. A bit of a lie, too, but it could be a mistake.

flabort:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Because I thought the win-con on a SK-ally was impossible to fulfill, forgetting that it's possible after death.

I guess they shouldn't except that I've put more thought into my actions today.

Because I didn't know for sure at the time, just largely suspected, and I didn't want to be wrong and pick the wrong one. It's like choosing between Door 1 and Door 2, when one of three doors has a flood of acid behind it; you don't pick door three, because you've been told what's behind it is worth less then the other two already. Anyways, where the metaphor breaks and trying to fix it doesn't matter, I didn't know for sure at the time if I'd get it wrong, and didn't know I could pick both.

Then I compiled my notes and did a vote analysis. And knew that I was wrong about him being a misguided towny.

NotQuiteThere: I didn't keep them on the computer, and I lack a scanner at the moment, but I can copy a cleaned up summary of the analyisis (started a bit too late I admit) to this spoiler for you:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


((I have to note that communism, in it's pure form, is for the good of all, and capitalism is for the good of the individual; Nerjin is just disguising this fact with 'MERICA; Not saying I am scum like he's trying to imply, just saying that communism was designed the way the town faction is supposed to work))
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Nerjin

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Re: BYOR 13 - Day 2: Not Today
« Reply #521 on: August 14, 2014, 08:22:14 pm »

[[Not a game related post but I actually like the idea of communism. It's pretty neat as an idea. It's just for the Roleplay. If you like Communism that's actually super interesting and I'm more than willing to discuss it as a system of government via PM if you like. Unless you're just sniping at me. In which case Blah...]]
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notquitethere

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Re: BYOR 13 - Day 2: Not Today
« Reply #522 on: August 14, 2014, 08:27:27 pm »

Flabort
Hmmm... so I'm not at T-1 like suspected, but T-4. That's some nice subtle manipulation yourself, there, NQT. A bit of a lie, too, but it could be a mistake.
Honest mistake. You had eight votes on you according to the lurker tracker, and I'd already discounted Shakerag's. Turned out a few more of them were from Day 1.

NotQuiteThere: I didn't keep them on the computer, and I lack a scanner at the moment, but I can copy a cleaned up summary of the analyisis (started a bit too late I admit) to this spoiler for you:
Thanks! It's good to see you've put in the work. I can guarantee that some of your conclusions will be false, but at least they're not coming out of nowhere. So, by your own analysis, Nerjin is hardly the scummiest player. He's tunnelling you sure, but is your vote anything other than an OMGUS?
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Imp

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Re: BYOR 13 - Day 2: Not Today
« Reply #523 on: August 14, 2014, 08:35:47 pm »

Posting from work, barely have time to try and follow posts, not really respond yet.  I'm aware I have a few questions waiting, but they're not very short answer ones, so they can wait for after work.

Wanted more detail about this, notquitethere:

I can guarantee that some of your conclusions will be false, but at least they're not coming out of nowhere.

Do you mean false as in his reasoning was genuine, but conclusions inaccurate, or false as in you think he's making up his conclusions and lying about what he claims to think?
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Re: BYOR 13 - Day 2: Not Today
« Reply #524 on: August 14, 2014, 08:43:22 pm »

Spoiler: Irony Owl (click to show/hide)

If you're just going to keep attacking my character rather than what I've done (or continually misrepresent what happened), we're done, Irony Owl. You're not going to convince me to stop voting for Flabort, whatever strange reason it is you don't want him to be lynched I do not care about- he's scum, or at least anti-town.
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I've played some mafia.

Most of the time when someone is described as politically correct they are simply correct.
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