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[4maskwolf]

To clarify why he is wrong: we aren't claiming our masks (unless your name is Tiruin or Scripten).  We can claim small parts of our roles in relative safety, since the scum probably aren't going to go out of their way to hunt down and kill someone with a minor power role.  The number of votes you have isn't really relevant at this point in the game, since town has such a large majority right now.  Later, perhaps, if you are a double voter, that could get you in trouble, but I thought through this setup from a scum perspective and chose a screw-everyone-over scum role (which, sadly, I don't get to use) so that I could eliminate inspection roles through blanket screwage.  In my opinion, inspection roles are the biggest threat to the mafia in this game, since a fullclaim is going to be required sooner or later and inspection roles can see through fakeclaims.

Which means that his entire logic is a moot point as long as he doesn't claim power cop or something similar.

[TolyK]

TolyK: You're basically saying "I'm following the letter of avoiding looking like mafia, so I mustn't be suspicious." Why don't you explain why you aren't telling us rather than expecting us to tell you why you should be?

If nothing else, how about you tell us because not telling us makes us think you're scummy?

Aha. That is something that I never said - can you show the exact sentence or passage which interprets the way?
Your logic is interesting - you claim that I must explain why I'm not telling you, but I claim the other way. The presumption of innocence it is called, no? Also, either way you would have a method of calling anything I do suspicious. If I didn't claim, which is what I'm doing, you pepper me about not telling. It I tell, that means that I'm not being consistent, that I'm trying to seem less suspicious, etc.
Either way, it gives you even more fuel to implicate me. Which is exactly what you seem to be trying to do, Scripten. You seem to be giving more thought than me into what would make me look more scummy.

You want me to claim how many votes I have? Maybe something else?

Ppe ninjas.
Or actually ninja.

You want me to use my vote as well? Any more takers?

[TolyK]

Oooooh. I get it.
I don't actually care about being targeted by scum. It's a matter of principle, currently.


Tell me why I should claim my role. Give me a good reason to.

[flabort]

Also, 1 vote when there are 3 at most on someone is a significant vote swing, no matter who's favor it swings towards; maybe it won't be enough to change the vote leader, but it's still significant. 2 votes instead is very much more so significant, and can definitely change the course of things.
0 votes means that it doesn't really matter who you vote, but you'd better vote someone or that will make you even more suspicious than you already are.

Let's see what points we have against TolyK now, hmm?
Evasiveness 10/10: "You're making it seem that I'm lying when in fact I'm nust not telling any information". The town's greatest weapon is the vote, and the town's greatest asset is information. If you're withholding information, you're not being towny.
Incomprehensibileness 8/10: "Wow, that's what I get for not proofreading - in context it made perfect sense in ask the wrong ways. Damn." OK, so you have no spellchecker, and don't proofread. Get a spellchecker, remind yourself to proofread, and make sure to use grammar.
Self-Preservation 9/10: "Also, me hammering someone would be insanely suspicious, wouldn't it?" Stop worrying about being so suspicious, one of the most suspicious things you can do is trying not to be suspicious (I learned that the hard way).
Repetition instead of Explanation 10/10: "This the answer you were looking for, 4wolf?" Actually, no it's not the answer he was looking for, it's just a repetition of something you said earlier, it doesn't answer the question of what does the other sentence meant. What did you MEAN by "I don't see it changing any outcome that I'm not against."? I'm pretty sure there was a game recently where a player started quoting themselves in answer to questions, and they got lynched for that.

Also, if you have no votes, WHY don't you have a vote? Did you pick that on purpose and think it through? Did you just not expect to have to play the day game?

[4maskwolf]

You want me to use my vote as well? Any more takers?

What I want most is for you to stop being as evasive as you are, because that's anti-town play.  A townie in a game like this has precious little reason to hide vote number.  Demonstrating whether or not your vote means anything is secondary to that.

On an unrelated note, Persus13, you've had two days to ruminate on the contents of the thread.  I'm sure we'd all love to hear your verdict and see you be more active.

PPE:

Tell me why I should claim my role. Give me a good reason to.

[joke]TolyK: Do you expect me to claim?
4maskwolf: No, Mr. TolyK, I expect you to die![/joke]
I don't want you to claim your role.  I want you to vote.  Because hiding whether or not you can vote benefits only a scum player.  The only reason to hide a vote is for a long-term sneak attack, and scum are in a situation when that is necessary far more often than town is.

[Silthuri]

Tiruin:

Extend: All those voting Varee; explain.
Contrast and compare to the rest of us.

Does Varee's methods speak of malevolent intent or scum backing up?

I do think he's scum although, like I said, I'm kinda teetering on the edge because I don't like him having the revive yet I want a flip on the D1 lynch. Since the day spans the weekend, I'll try to compile every single thought I've got on everyone's actions. On that note, unvote.

I kinda think they were of malevolent intent. He did hit the person to attacked him first, which is some very bad luck if he did actually choose randomly.

Mm, alright, let's get into the gritty details then.
What makes Varee a considerable target--sans any thought of his powers at the moment--due to his posts in this thread? My read on him is wavering on townie-type (aha rhymes!) due to how he claimed and when [it was more of the follow-up that prodded me]; his votes and pokes at 4mask however, speak more of a literal newbie card (analysis of the ongoings of his post as well as how they're worded and the perceived intent and continuous feeling of it all? Yeah.) than malevolent design.

It is mostly his power and who he targeted that makes him seem the most scummy to me. That's what I find malevolent. And the vast majority of why I think he's scum does stem from his power.

Well if you're claiming to be saving your vote when you don't even have one... that's pretty bad IMO.

It feels like a general rule to me than an opinion
...It's an opinion there?

He said that he doesn't feel like it's an issue, so it's his opinion. I'm basically stating my opinion is that I think his is wrong. I think it is kind of a rule because it's lying...
TolyK:
When it comes down to whether or not you even have a vote, it's a big deal. Especially when you claimed that you're saving your vote and now you're not saying whether or not you even have one. I would like you to prove your ability to vote.

[4maskwolf]

[joke]TolyK: Do you expect me to claim?
4maskwolf: No, Mr. TolyK, I expect you to die![/joke]

EBWOP, went back and made it's color gold 

[Scripten]

Aha. That is something that I never said - can you show the exact sentence or passage which interprets the way?

Right here:

You're making it seem that I'm lying, when in fact I'm just not telling any information. Unless I say directly how many votes I have, I can't be said to have claimed N votes. What is the problem with that?

You're saying "I'm not lyyyying, I'm just not telling the truth." Semantic bullcrap. Stop trying to weasel away and just tell us the truth.

Your logic is interesting - you claim that I must explain why I'm not telling you, but I claim the other way. The presumption of innocence it is called, no?

No. There's a reason presented for why you look scummy. Either solve that or you continue to look scummy.

Also, either way you would have a method of calling anything I do suspicious. If I didn't claim, which is what I'm doing, you pepper me about not telling. It I tell, that means that I'm not being consistent, that I'm trying to seem less suspicious, etc.
Either way, it gives you even more fuel to implicate me. Which is exactly what you seem to be trying to do, Scripten. You seem to be giving more thought than me into what would make me look more scummy.

Again, no. You're doing a specific thing that makes you look scummy. Your answer will determine if you are scummy to me or not. Not answering is an answer, you realize? Also, knock off this WIFOM crap. Now you're, what, trying to say I'm suspicious for scumhunting? Please.

You've implicated yourself with your playstyle. You're being told, specifically, what to do so you can fix it. You refuse on principle. Why?

You want me to claim how many votes I have? Maybe something else?

Quit changing the subject. We're not trying to make you claim your mask. We don't want to be surprised with a quickhammer or an accidental one. You're intentionally causing the town's most powerful weapon to become more unreliable than it already is.

[TolyK]

Ah, so you're saying that I'm suspicious for worrying about being suspicious, while telling me what is making me suspicious and using my "worry about being suspicious" to press me to do something I've already said I didn't intend to do. You say that that isn't being townie, are trying to implicate with grammar (when, I think, those instances of mine are rare in comparison with certain others).

The answer to his apparent question was something that I mentioned right before his post that he may have missed. Otherwise, I did not understand his question at all.

As to why I have no votes (as you say), that could be answered after I claim how many votes I have.

Ninjas!
That's actually a good reference. *applause*
Claiming how many votes I have is party of claiming my role.
Oh, and that makes three concerned citizens. I'll see about that.

[4maskwolf]

Ah, so you're saying that I'm suspicious for worrying about being suspicious, while telling me what is making me suspicious and using my "worry about being suspicious" to press me to do something I've already said I didn't intend to do. You say that that isn't being townie, are trying to implicate with grammar (when, I think, those instances of mine are rare in comparison with certain others).

The answer to his apparent question was something that I mentioned right before his post that he may have missed. Otherwise, I did not understand his question at all.

As to why I have no votes (as you say), that could be answered after I claim how many votes I have.

Ninjas!
That's actually a good reference. *applause*
Claiming how many votes I have is party of claiming my role.
Oh, and that makes three concerned citizens. I'll see about that.

I just want to know whether or not you have a vote, which is as simple as voting the...

Oh forget it.

I've said this before, no point in saying it again.

((YES!!!!! SOMEONE GOT MY REFERENCE  ))

[ToonyMan]

Jiokuy, Toonyman: Elaborate on the usefulness of a Varee lynch this first dance. Do you have any secondary targets?

The day was going to end soon so I was pretty much okay with at least chipping an HP off scum. Persus13 would be good for not uh, doing anything even after the MOD extend, but Tiruin saved the day with their extension. Would like to hear from Persus13.


@TolyK:
Dude, just...vote someone to prove you have a vote or say you don't have a vote. We're not going to lynch you because you're unable to vote (look at 4maskwolf and Toaster).

[TolyK]

More ninjas!
Quickie - I could not quickhammer anyone tomorrow, or possibly the day after that either. What would be bad if I claimed tomorrow?

And it currently it's held by principle, mostly. I'm not intending to die today, though.


More of them! Quick, get to the cannons!
Toony, exactly which is why I want planning to claim yet.

[TolyK]

Gonna wait one more round of replies. Wise choice, 4mask.

[TolyK]

Oh, and 4mask, that post was to Scripten, not you. I've already understood your qualms.


Geez I feel like Job. Whoever gets the reference is awesome.

[4maskwolf]

Geez I feel like Job. Whoever gets the reference is awesome.

Did you just make a biblical reference?

*applauds*

That's not a commonly known story.