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[flabort]

Can I get a mod extend to allow a new player to read through the thread?

I second this.

I guess I'll put in a third.

I already used mine for the purposes of allowing the mod to find a replacement and so the replacement would have time to read, so yeah, I fourth this.

[Scripten]

I'd like to hear Silthuri, Varee, Reverie, Scripten and anyone who hasn't posted in the last 16 hours or so weigh in on the current situation.

I'm right in the middle of a movie with friends, but as far reads go, I'm looking at TolyK a little more suspiciously. It's day one, so solid scum reads are harder to come by. Varee is also on my radar, but that's no change from before. His play was very strange, and so was the claim he made.

[Tiruin]

PFP

Can I get a mod extend to allow a new player to read through the thread?

I second this.

I guess I'll put in a third.

I already used mine for the purposes of allowing the mod to find a replacement and so the replacement would have time to read, so yeah, I fourth this.

5th'd

[Jiokuy]

Bearded Devil (Easy Summon) CR 5 (Lesser)
Barbed Devil (Moderate Summon)
Earth Elemental (Very Easy Summon)
Angels (Ok summons)

The thoughtful case against Varee

Varee, I applaud your bluff, but I feel it is time to end this farce.

First) Your general RVS question regarding which colors are scummy is less of an effective or relevent hunting question, and more of a effective method for manpulating town bias.

Second) We can agree that you are the changeling that hit Scripten earlier today. Nulling a player is generally a very bad move for town, you gave up your power role to steal someone elses.
Part2)Bonus points, you targeted the first player to vote you.

Varee: You said that you intend to fake cluelessness to prove you are town. That seems very fishy to me and rather scum-sided. That, along with your view that rolefishing is not scummy, makes me feel like you're setting up a wall to hide behind later on if/when you are called out for other scummy actions. How do you intend to help the town win with such an attitude?

In your favor) You immediately claimed as the changeling-er, you also didn't take No-Voter. But you DID take lover. IMO Lover is an abysmal power to force on another player, it allows the scum to break their 1 kill limit.
Although) In Jack's BYOR you intentionally claimed ignorance of a fundamental rule of Mafia in order to appear more town. I cannot in good conscience believe that you are so ignorant of the harm your changeling has inflicted. Put simply I believe you are too good of a player to have done this as town. I believe you fabricated your early claim to avoid suspicion later, as Scripten was about to full claim his power set. I believe you claimed so you could keep the expensive powers like revive without the added risk of somebody noticing they came from Scripten.

Third) Outside of some voteless ressuring on Wolf, Varee has yet to really particiate in any hunts. His reads are mostly null and inoffensive. I get the feeling he is playing it safe. Several of his coments make me feel he is a little bit too lynch happy. (This is less concrete just more of a lean)
Plus) Varee bandwagoned Wolf in #296 with very little explintion. While he later give some reasoning in #305, I still feel that Varee lacks good proof, and was only going for an easy kill.

I believe that Varee used his extra points from the flaws to buy a kill (possibly a hidden-kill) after he performed his one-shot changeling, but since his changeling was not free-, he's given up scums D1 kill for a large sum of extra points.

I also believe he only claimed after he knew he had revive. I am betting he anticipated the extra durability would help to solidify his claim.

Sadly, he is in a pretty good position with that revive. To any Town Vigilante's: Now is the time to end the threat!

Also, sixth-ed on the new player extend.

[Jiokuy]

Uhhh, Ignore the first 4 lines there. I was using that notepad doc for Pathfinder stuff, and apparently forgot to clear it all the way.

[Silthuri]

#7 on the mod extend.
Upon thinking about it all day, Unvote. Varee because his willingness to jump on the wolf vote because I explained I wouldn't vote him because it'd tie the votes. And also, in your reads, the only person you claim to think of as scum is flabort for "trying to get rid of you." You then claim that you have a null read on 4mask but claim you think he's lying. Instead of going after who you find most scummy, you jump on the wagon to get someone else lynched. When I claimed I wanted to vote 4mask, you jumped in and said you've been wanting to vote him. It just doesn't fit.

[notquitethere]

Pfp; oh alright. Mod extended until Friday 4PM GMT.

[Varee]

Well first thing is until sunday i will be quite busy so i might not be posting much


now for all the question.....
First thing reguarding Wolf , I was not really band wagoning but I was going to vote him but it would result in a tie so I waited. Then when i log on midday, I saw the slituri was going for him too so I just vote then as It wont cuase a tie if she also voted.
Now for the not hunting part, that pretty much my play style as I dont have much interation to other player due to timezone so normally I dont play much hunt. The incident stir up quite a lot and I am depending on that incident to get information. Sadly I dont have any information power as of now so I dont think I will be much help.


@Jiokuy 1) Ok that question is definitely trying to get genral idea of mask color but noone really did anythign except Tururin claiming mask color....
2) I have not control on who I am hitting with the power, It is part of the mask system so I dont know that I will hit Slith.
3)I dont see any real evident of a scum yet. I vote wolf for the fact that his build seem fake-ish.  And my read only based on people talking about me using changling, and not that many people have opinion on that actually.

[Varee]

Also here my reason for choosing/not choosing flaw

Flaws
A player can get more points on N0 only by taking flaws. These can be bought off later in the game for twice their initial cost. Each flaw can only be taken once.
-1 - Hardcore (all protects on you fail- cannot be taken alongside Kill Immune) not really doing anything
-1 - Dense (you gain no experience points for surviving the day) I choose this to disable them from saving themselve, It is part of diabling them


-1 - Mercenary (all your powers cost one point to play. Must have at least one applicable power in order to take this flaw) I was tempted to take this one but in the end they wont have any power to sue anyway and dense is much better. Also it will require me to spend a point to use changling


-1 - Blatant (every time you target a player, it will be announced at the end of the phase that you targeted them, but not what with) This one is interesting, It might be a good way to proof that i did what i say I did but I was wary if the target somehow die, i would have to take the blame so i ignore it.


-1  Minimalist (If you ever receive a power or auto (through Gift, Santa, Bless, Generous etc.) it is randomly given away to a non-minimalist player if there are any non-minimalist players alive.) This one is mostly pointless, I dont think it help in anyway, I might even harm the town If people decide to try give the target atleast something to do.


-2 – Generous (you have a 50% chance of giving away one of your powers to someone else (both randomly selected) after each lynch. Must have a relevant power to take this. This giving doesn't count as targeting for action-resolution purposes.) Not as powerful as they wont have any power to give anyway


-2 - Unable to vote It will make them completely useless yes, but as many people have say, I dont want to take away towns(most towns anyway) only weapon


-2 - Unreliable (your powers and autos have a 50% chance of failure. Must have at least one power or auto in order to take this flaw) Well I dont want my changling screwing up right?


-2 - Magnetic (powers have 50% chance of targeting yourself- must have at least one non-self-targeting power to take) Same as above


-2 - Afflicted (at the end of each day phase, you gain 1 additional unique flaw) This make the swap even harder to get rid off. It might be over kill so but it is my second choice after lover


-2 – Lover (a random living player is picked, if they die, so do you) This one is the one that i ponder on the most. It seem useless but the reason I pick it was to get a garantee. In case the mask I target dont claim at all AND he have suspicious power set, It is my back up plan to use this to try get rid of them. It doesnt sound to good now but when I was picking power it seem liek a good chice.


-2 – One-Shot (your powers disappear after they've been used. Must have at least one power to take.) So I either take this or I need to get innate or changeling or else who ever get the power would be just throwing it around. So this one is a must with this built


-2 - Intermittent (your powers only work on even phases) This look interesting, Only if it were for odd phases I would have taken it. But mising out on first turn and commiting two turn to this plan doesnt really feel right.

[Tiruin]

-1 - Blatant (every time you target a player, it will be announced at the end of the phase that you targeted them, but not what with) This one is interesting, It might be a good way to proof that i did what i say I did but I was wary if the target somehow die, i would have to take the blame so i ignore it.

Take the blame huh?
But actions, as stated, are day-ish, and happen whenever NQT gets on. That wariness seems more of a precaution here, but I'm curious--isn't you claiming it proof enough?

-2 - Afflicted (at the end of each day phase, you gain 1 additional unique flaw) This make the swap even harder to get rid off. It might be over kill so but it is my second choice after lover

Second choice huh? Why didn't you pick it then compared to the list of:
Dense, Lover and One-Shot
That you picked?

-2 - Intermittent (your powers only work on even phases) This look interesting, Only if it were for odd phases I would have taken it. But mising out on first turn and commiting two turn to this plan doesnt really feel right.

Feel right why? You said something on hitting scum in 1/4 chance--herein I introduce you to the fallacy of statistics. They are numbers translated from observation and ideas in a contextual setting.

Statistics in that manner, has no basis in this game (at least in D1 if you try to infer 'Oh I'll hit scum 1 in four times ') wherein it's a big risk taking that chance.

Still, why didn't you take Intermittent and wait until the second day?


Sil
^{I was thinking less 'Skyrim language' and more 'Tolkein-esque' xD}

#7 on the mod extend.
Upon thinking about it all day, Unvote. Varee because his willingness to jump on the wolf vote because I explained I wouldn't vote him because it'd tie the votes. And also, in your reads, the only person you claim to think of as scum is flabort for "trying to get rid of you." You then claim that you have a null read on 4mask but claim you think he's lying. Instead of going after who you find most scummy, you jump on the wagon to get someone else lynched. When I claimed I wanted to vote 4mask, you jumped in and said you've been wanting to vote him. It just doesn't fit.

What does the orange tell you, or what meaning about the person does it have for you? And what, in the context of an efficient scumteam, does it tell you?


Jiokuy

[...]
Third) Outside of some voteless ressuring on Wolf, Varee has yet to really particiate in any hunts. His reads are mostly null and inoffensive. I get the feeling he is playing it safe. Several of his coments make me feel he is a little bit too lynch happy. (This is less concrete just more of a lean)
Plus) Varee bandwagoned Wolf in #296 with very little explintion. While he later give some reasoning in #305, I still feel that Varee lacks good proof, and was only going for an easy kill.

(!)I believe that Varee used his extra points from the flaws to buy a kill (possibly a hidden-kill) after he performed his one-shot changeling, but since his changeling was not free-, he's given up scums D1 kill for a large sum of extra points.

I also believe he only claimed after he knew he had revive. I am betting he anticipated the extra durability would help to solidify his claim.

Sadly, he is in a pretty good position with that revive. To any Town Vigilante's: Now is the time to end the threat!

Note in purple. The speculation is a good deal--however speculation like this can be made into a more refined or clarified context by giving the hard numbers given that there is evidence prior to this kind of case.

As seen, there is nothing in the power list that precludes the absence of NEGATIVE POWERS in the event of changeling occurring.
So chalk up a nice +5 to Varee's point pool.

4 - Changeling (target player gains all your powers/flaws/autos and you get the powers/flaws/autos of your target)

So 6 points remaining :O
Guess what a hidden kill means~

6 - Kill (kills target player)

x/2 - Self-targeting- (pick a power: that power can, but does not have to, be self targeted. This upgrade costs half the cost of the power, rounded up.)
x/2 - Hidden- (pick a power: that power and any upgrades attached to it won't appear in ability inspects, fortune teller reports or counts.)
x/2 - Innate- (An innate power cannot be stolen, swapped, recycled or Changeling'd
x - Free-: When choosing Free-, pick one of your non-auto powers. Free- costs as much as that power and allows you to use that power once in its phase for free (this means you can use the same power twice in a phase as well). This use doesn't stack with Prolific (if you use prolific to use the same free-power twice, you'd use it three times, not four)

= 9 points -_-
That's 3 points off radar.

Jiokuy, tell me, are you speculating on easily removable paths to implicate a target more and more? Or are you bringing up every prod and poke of windfall of a negative degree to say 'I'm scumhunting and this is a real scummy dude'?
Did you take in the fact that Varee [CLAIMED TO BE THE ONE WHO TARGETED SCRIPTEN, WHICH IS A PRIMARY PIECE OF EVIDENCE IN ALL THIS COMPLICATED MESS?]

What did Varee claiming to hit Scripten mean to you?

Back to the orange above: If Varee lacked good proof, doesn't that mean he was backing away from what he initially accused instead of anything else? Isn't that a better idea to give out?

Now to the Lime Green part: He only claimed...after he knew he had a revive. It's plausible, but what gain would it give? Why should he claim when nothing beforehand would even implicate him at all given the risks of doing such? By this questioning, I mean what do you mean by the highlighted portion--how is that conducive to insight of Varee == scum given your suspicion?



Now the last orange note: Speaking off to any possible existence of town vigilantes? How will that help at all?

[Varee]

Take the blame huh?
But actions, as stated, are day-ish, and happen whenever NQT gets on. That wariness seems more of a precaution here, but I'm curious--isn't you claiming it proof enough?

I mean If for example slithuri died after i use changling and in the end of day It say I target slithuri mask, that is very likely for people to start pointing fingers.

Second choice huh? Why didn't you pick it then compared to the list of:
Dense, Lover and One-Shot
That you picked?

I have a feeling that the current list is enough to disable the scum, afflicted will just screw up the 3/4 chance that it will go wrong even more so i didnt take it.

Feel right why? You said something on hitting scum in 1/4 chance--herein I introduce you to the fallacy of statistics. They are numbers translated from observation and ideas in a contextual setting.

It have nothing to do with stat. It more liek I feel it is more useful to get it done on the first turn
If i have taken interminent, I will have gone with mecenary instead of dense and also It gave mroe chance for people to have point to buy out of the lock. If it hit someone and they dont claim at all It might be hard to find out before they can climb out of the trap so I feel I have to be full commited.


Also for the math part, it is 3/11 to reduce the scum power by 33% assuming all scums have the same level of power. It will more useful if it get scum killer and less if it hit spotter but just assume average for now. And it have 8/11 chane to take town power down by about 12% , making the same assumption.

[Tiruin]

Take the blame huh?
But actions, as stated, are day-ish, and happen whenever NQT gets on. That wariness seems more of a precaution here, but I'm curious--isn't you claiming it proof enough?

I mean If for example slithuri died after i use changling and in the end of day It say I target slithuri mask, that is very likely for people to start pointing fingers.

o_O
*rereads*

-1 - Blatant (every time you target a player, it will be announced at the end of the phase that you targeted them, but not what with)

><
Yeah. I thought this activates everytime you act. Oops.

Anyway...in that sense, wouldn't it be weird that the same target you're picking will be killed in the same instance? Does it seem that plausible that you worried more about that possibility than anything else?

It have nothing to do with stat. It more liek I feel it is more useful to get it done on the first turn
If i have taken interminent, I will have gone with mecenary instead of dense and also It gave mroe chance for people to have point to buy out of the lock. If it hit someone and they dont claim at all It might be hard to find out before they can climb out of the trap so I feel I have to be full commited.

Alright.

Why did you claim to hit Scripten then?

[Varee]

Why wouldn't I calim? I was just proving that scripten is not lying and people dont need to waste their time on looking for whoever used changeling. Their was no reason for me to keep quiet as my bet didnt pay out so yeah ......


Also about balant, It was a risk that i didnt need to take so even if it is not very likely, it wouldnt be very useful anyway as the person will most likely not have any power to use. Also the changeling also help me work out have many point they have or any possible innate power as it is a pretty simple math to work that out anyway.


There no way to link people to the mask though so lover is still a back up plan. It promote claim and maybe it is protecting toaster to some extend but well idk where am going with this ...

[Reverie]

Hey guys, I'm still here. I should be getting my laptop back in a few hours (we just got the text), so I'll be more active again once that happens. I apologise.

I've done a little perusing and have a few scattered thoughts and questions to lay out.

Tiruin: Your posts are a bit hard to follow. The colour-coding in your last post in particular doesn't have purple text in it. Besides Jiokuy, what are your current reads?

Silthuri: What are your thoughts on 4maskwolf's claim?

Toonyman: Are you especially irritable this game? You seem pretty abrasive and even taunting in some of your posts.

Varee would be my lynch target if he didn't have that Resurrect. Even the decision to take blame so readily feels like a ruse that Varee was coached into for town rapport, and I do not believe in a second that he was hinging on a one in four chance of hitting scum with that changeling. No amount of logic would make building a role around such odds a good idea for annyone but scum.

[Varee]

umm what is blue name?


Also give me some credit for my play style,It might not be one that you think is a good idea but it one that is me .