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[Reverie]

This whole situation has put us into a bit of a bind. I'm still under the impression that this is going to be an information game, wherein roleflips may not be as important as intel-gathering abilities. Since we now know that Varee has a resurrect, all it takes for scum to grab it is to uncover which mask is Varee's sometime during the course of the game.

Everyone: Do you consider a roleflip at this point to be more important than removing the ability for scum to find and take this Resurrect power later?

[Scripten]

In that BYOR, [seriously, people, go link which Mafia game it is if such and such would be used as evidence or a factor in a case :I] as in this BYOR

Spoiler: in which /-MY-\ personal disappoint happens (click to show/hide)

IN WHICH MOWE IS SILTHURI ARRRGGGHHHH WHY DIDN'T ANYONE TELL ME.
What does Silthuri mean?

, Varee is town o_o
In that idea of playing 'clueless', I believe its rather of a contextual point that was being raised.
Did you look into the context there?
Or his answer ._.
*reads* You did and went on another tangent .__.
Query: He didn't answer yet on using said power--await the decision before concluding :v I'm speaking to you like so because my personal read on you is leaning town.

Not exactly a tangent. I had thought that he'd said that he meant to use his new player status to cover his actions. When he'd clarified, I just made sure that I understood and moved on. I still find rolefishing to be incredibly scum-sided, and the tangent you're referring to was my explanation of why it's scummy. At this point, it's almost a moot point, because lynching Varee right now is next to useless.

The reasoning behind this is that 4maskwolf encouraged claiming, which is blatantly maskfishing, and, at first, tried to say that changeling was a crapshoot for scum, and then accused me of being scum because I was thinking too hard about using changeling as scum. Discouraging scumhunting is not particularly town-sided. If you can't think like your enemy, how can you confront them competently?

Wait, where did he encourage..erh?

Here. He specifically said that if he was changeling'd, he'd claim. If you read through our debate, you'll see my reasoning as to why I eventually felt I had to claim my mask. It was a way to level the playing field, since I believed (and am still heavily leaning that way) that I was hit by scum.

FAKEDIT: Reverie: That is assuming that Varee is not scum. If someone does steal his resurrect, he can also tell us, since his role is now revealed. A role flip is still a very important data point. Claiming power results is risky and not always trustworthy. A lynch is still the only sure way to know alignment and powers.

[4maskwolf]

4maskwolf: Varee is correct about the way I built my role. My day game is most useful to me, so I built myself such that I could maximize that. I don't know how useful it would be to cleanse me. Everyone knows my mask now, since I had to reveal earlier. If I get cleansed, then I'm just a really juicy target for scum. Also, I don't have any points nor any facility to get them, so making a build will be laborious. I feel like people's powers should be used elsewhere. I can still vote and scumhunt, after all.

I see.  Personally, I would have taken double-voter bloodthirsty if I was confident in my day game, but to each their own.  Your role would have been horrible for scum, so I'm pretty certain you are townie.  There is no reason for a scumteam of you, Varee, and one other to try such an enormously elaborate ruse this early on.

As for the whole thing about cleansing, I can see half of your point.  I'm still not sure why you getting cleansed would make you any bigger of a target, since there are those of us with actual power roles in play.  Why do you think you would be a target?

PPE 1: I think that a roleflip is the most important thing, but that in a game like this, where information roles are king, it is less important than in other games.

PPE 2: I didn't encourage others to claim, I said that I personally would claim if such a thing occurred.  Yes, it would tell the scum who was behind the mask, but at that point I would be useless anyway.

Also, if you still feel you were hit by scum, then why aren't you lynching Varee.  Varee is claiming to hit you either because a) they actually did or b) they are a lying scum covering for a scumbuddy.  Either way, they are scum.

[4maskwolf]

Post is not preview, 4mask...

to finish what I was saying in PPE 2: at least in your opinion.  Because you believe that whoever hit you is scum.

[Scripten]

Varee is right about resurrection preventing a lynch kill. It was one of the reasons I took it, but when I'd taken it, I was under the impression that it would cause a role flip without killing me outright. Since that isn't the case, as NQT pointed out, I can't say that lynching Varee is a good plan right now. Since he wouldn't flip, it'd be a no-lynch "night," which is not a good idea for the town. I hate to fling my vote back and forth, but there's no other way to it.

Like I said, lynching Varee right now is the equivalent of a no-lynch on day one. I'd rather have us all get information rather than faff about with distrust and fake claims and all that extraneous crap that comes with power plays.

[Silthuri]

I mean darnit there was something familiar about Silthuri.
^{I didn't read the sig >_> <_<}

*hugs*
"Silthuri" means "soul master" in the Skyrim dragon language.
Reverie:

Everyone: Do you consider a roleflip at this point to be more important than removing the ability for scum to find and take this Resurrect power later?

Roleflip. If Varee does indeed have a resurrection, he will know if it's taken and if we ever in the future lynch someone with a resurrect, we'll know there's a good chance we've found a scum.

[TolyK]

4mask, I'm sorry I confused you with someone else (well... :p) about starting the changeling question. This is actually making me reread, which brings me to these interesting notes...
Flabort (#86) aka me about getting changeling'd. This is in the midst of asking various questions, but it could be a mask of what would come later. Flabort later claims to have wasted his (her? :/) action (#105), which could be later used to help prove towniness.
Varee (#109) asks about rvs, even though it's pretty obvious it's random... Possibly playing the newbie card. Then later (#fillthisinlater) he actually randomized, however this could be also a ploy.
Then 4mask claiming nonvoter.
Tiruin claims mask and I give her a hard time for it, which was met well enough.
(#138) Varee posts a wifom bomb...
Varee asked (#140 top) 4mask about changelinging.

Holy hell, I've just gotten an idea. Any two of 4mask, Varee and Scripten could be distancing themselves from each other. 4mask said changeling was a crapshoot for scum, and Scripten attacked him for that, but didn't really press it. Similar play from the others regarding each other pairs.

Where, that was a lot of phone work. Keep in mind this is only until about reply#143.

[Scripten]

Holy hell, I've just gotten an idea. Any two of 4mask, Varee and Scripten could be distancing themselves from each other. 4mask said changeling was a crapshoot for scum, and Scripten attacked him for that, but didn't really press it. Similar play from the others regarding each other pairs.

That's pretty much exactly what I was accusing 4mask and Varee of doing, which lead up to this post. I was hoping to see more people comment on the situation, but that may be wishful thinking. Deathsword in particular hasn't got much time to play from the looks of it.

[flabort]

Truly, wasting the lynch is dumb, but if I have to unvote because Varee wouldn't flip, I guess that makes me upset.

I guess I'll go back to voting for DeathSword, since he's completely missing. Apparently he never made it "home" for the weekend, judging from his one post.

PPE TolyK I'm a guy, and don't worry about calling me a girl, I've been told I often don't notice when people do that IRL.

[Toaster]

Flabort:

Second off, this is less fishing then my usual style.

Oh yeah?

And you should know a little about me by now, rolefishing is my town signature *cough* I guess I'm not that well known, though.

So you're scum here, then?  Good to know.

Another question for you, then, Toaster.
What is your favorite thing about this set-up? And what do you like most about lynching?

Probably the ability to abuse the system and pick my own power lineup.  Eliminating suspects and seeing scum hang.

And the result is in. My random vote goes to...

Deathsword

You realize any value of your vote is completely gone if you just throw it around at random, right?  This goes triple if you just tell everyone it's random.  You'd have been better off not using it at all.


Varee:

So a general question, How do you guys pick who you are asking a certain question? is there like a pattern to it or you just asking randome people?

Never completely random.  There's a reason behind every question, even if the reason is to see how you react to a question more than get the answer itself.


Toony:  How is starting with a lot of points scummy?

@Toaster:

Toaster: action failure due to illegal self-targeting looks exactly the same as action failure due to blocking, except if you're circumspect.

Do you think any town players would choose mask swapping?

It's possible.  Scum would also be hampered by a surprise mask switch, but it would be harder for a townie to effectively target.


4mask:

Everyone: What are your opinions of townies having kills? non-self cleanses?  Gifts? gossip? vote-stealer?

Limited utility with the mask mechanic.  Not criminal, but probably a waste of points.  Less wasteful, especially if combined with magnetic.  That one is scummy.  Not scummy at all; better the vote be with someone you trust (yourself).

everyone: Do you believe that the masquerade element of the game is town-sided or scum-sided?
Which flaw do you think is the worst for it's cost?
Do you think that santa is a power more likely to be taken by town or scum?
How about bless?
Do you think that the deep south element of the game is town-sided or scum-sided?

Scum sided; I've addressed why.  Mercenary; it's only use is that hilarious asshole combo with dense and changeling whatsisname pulled off last game.  Tossup.  Tossup.  I'm not sure, and I'm curious to see.

Trying to figure out what is safe to claim?

Everyone: Based on Scripten's claimed and confirmed role, do you think that Scripten is town.  Would it be worth it to try and cleanse him?

Leaning yes.  Maybe.  I answered this more to Jiouky below.


Scripten the Smurf:  Why did you pick Virtuous?

If I'm not mistaken, scum are able to kill on day one, so I'm not sure what my potential stabbing has to do with it. It's also possible that, since most, if not all, of the specific information I know is out there in full view, I may not be as much of a threat to the scum team. After all, I can't exactly use powers against them.

Why would they kill the guy known to be powerless over unknown potential town powers?


Jiokuy:

Everyone: So what are the advantages to claiming masks?

Right now?  None, unless you're scum.  It'd be a terrible idea to claim masks COUGH TIRUIN

Tolyk, Tirun, Toony, and Toaster:In your opinion what are the chances that he's faking the lover to direct the scum-kill to Toaster?

I buy his claim, though it'd be clever of him to lie about who his lover his to direct the kill in another direction.

Why does your question here not consider the possibility that I am scum?

Everyone: Is it worth trying to "fix" Scripten with cleanses? I think we should leave the individual decisions to each healer to preserve anonymity, but everyone should be ale to weigh in on this debate. Is it worth it?

Only if there are no better cleanse targets, but it's a reasonable consideration.  I have a medium town read on him right now.


Tiruin:

Also scum don't have a kill. Are you in the game, sir?

How do you know?




On Varee:  First off, changeling and one shot?  You're a sick son of a bitch, and I love it!  Brilliant!

This man is clearly a master manipulator, and I am further convinced to never trust a word he says.  In any case, my first instinct is to think him scum.  The second is to think him town, because he didn't take nonvoter.  Scripten's a pure vanilla townie now, instead of a vanilla nonvoter (aka useless.)  Instead of totally sabotaged, he's just powerless.

My final determination is to consider the whole business a null tell, because of the manipulator comment above.  I could see fully plausible scum and town motivations for his move, including claiming it.  Lynching him straightaway is a waste since he has a revive, though.


Reverie:

Everyone: Do you consider a roleflip at this point to be more important than removing the ability for scum to find and take this Resurrect power later?

I don't think it's a good idea to lynch Varee just to eat the revive.


Everyone voting/suspecting 4mask:  Why?  All I see is arguments they're colluding because Varee asked 4mask about changeling, which to be some seriously circumstantial evidence.

[Scripten]

Scripten the Smurf:  Why did you pick Virtuous?

I built my powers around my day play. I'm not used to games with lots of power roles, so I went with a more solid version of what I know. Virtuous protected me from gossip, which I felt would be the worst threat.

If I'm not mistaken, scum are able to kill on day one, so I'm not sure what my potential stabbing has to do with it. It's also possible that, since most, if not all, of the specific information I know is out there in full view, I may not be as much of a threat to the scum team. After all, I can't exactly use powers against them.

Why would they kill the guy known to be powerless over unknown potential town powers?
[/quote]

I expected to be NK'd after having lost my resurrect. I figured it was a scum play for eliminating a townie for good, so I put out all the information I had, both to ensure everyone knew what I knew before I was killed. Like I said, I don't see myself as a significant threat now, but I did at first.

[Scripten]

If I'm not mistaken, scum are able to kill on day one, so I'm not sure what my potential stabbing has to do with it. It's also possible that, since most, if not all, of the specific information I know is out there in full view, I may not be as much of a threat to the scum team. After all, I can't exactly use powers against them.

Why would they kill the guy known to be powerless over unknown potential town powers?

I expected to be NK'd after having lost my resurrect. I figured it was a scum play for eliminating a townie for good, so I put out all the information I had, both to ensure everyone knew what I knew before I was killed. Like I said, I don't see myself as a significant threat now, but I did at first.

EBWOP: Quote fail

Also, Toaster, not catching the smurf reference. It's not a term I'm familiar with. Or is it 'cause I'm blue?

[Toaster]

Scripten:  Hmm... fair enough.  Like I said, I believe your claim anyway so I won't dispute you there.


Also, this.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The Ultramarines are a War40k Space Marine chapter that is often derogatorily called Smurfs.

[Scripten]

Scripten:  Hmm... fair enough.  Like I said, I believe your claim anyway so I won't dispute you there.


Also, this.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The Ultramarines are a War40k Space Marine chapter that is often derogatorily called Smurfs.

Aha, that makes sense. Also, a 40K or Battletech theme game would be amazing.[/thread derail]

[4maskwolf]

4mask:
Trying to figure out what is safe to claim?

Nope.  When the time comes to claim, I will, of course, full claim.  But not today.  I only claimed today what I felt I needed to in order to avoid misunderstandings and related silliness.

Also, about Varee being a sick son of a bitch, you have no idea.  I was so close to running a role with one-shot, flexible, power swap, and prolific as my role, with unable to vote and dense as my other two flaws, leaving me with (I think) two points.  Then, I hit someone with power swap, which fades as I use it, sell the power, buy power swap, and repeat.  Over and over again.  Every turn.

That was my scum role that I sent in.

PPE:

Also, a 40K or Battletech theme game would be amazing.[/thread derail]

[thread derail]WANT!!!!!!!!![/thread derail]