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Vanilla DF 40.x

Still playing Masterwork for DF 34.x

Both equally.

Both, mostly the new vanilla.

Both, mostly Masterwork.

[amistospindraca]

I like playing the same world too, as much as possible. I don't play adventure mode (tried it, didn't like it) but I always think it's cool when I get former inhabitants as migrants.

I also like reclaiming a failed fortress. That is very cool. Though often the million-mile long list of the dead causes me some problems. I don't know if there's any way to cut that list out. I really don't care that Gordo Bottompiddles the goblin thief was killed by Urist McDoorguard in 127.

The reason why adventure mode worked so successfully on me was I think 1. my love of MUDs in the 90s, 2. my limited exposure to roguelikes previously. I didn't really know what kind of game I was looking at when I started playing adventure mode. It took time to get used to dying so much. I had to develop a taste for it. Now I'm regularly fascinated when I encounter objects I have either made in fort mode or encountered as a prior adventurer, or when something somewhere has one of my dwarves' or adventurers' names on it. It's the chaos, I guess.

[Guthbug]

Ok, tried to play a .40 fort a little while ago. 7 dwarves on embark, Ironhand graphics, running Linux mode on a mountainous embark with no surface water or anything else.

115 FPS.

The cap is set to 300.

Based on comments in other sections of the website, that's about normal. It only gets slower from there. The living world is bogging down the processor checking every other entity at every site to make sure they are happy and have socks.

[Arcvasti]

Toady says that should get optimized in a few versions. So yay.

[Guthbug]

Toady says that should get optimized in a few versions. So yay.

Oh very cool.

[Findulidas]

Ok, tried to play a .40 fort a little while ago. 7 dwarves on embark, Ironhand graphics, running Linux mode on a mountainous embark with no surface water or anything else.

115 FPS.

The cap is set to 300.

Based on comments in other sections of the website, that's about normal. It only gets slower from there. The living world is bogging down the processor checking every other entity at every site to make sure they are happy and have socks.

Yeah, I love df but it gets frustratingly slow over time. Atleast 80% of my forts have died to fps and the rest I basically embarked on extreme evil biomes or something along those lines. Sometimes I wish he would spend a solid 6 months just to optimize things, but I guess we cant have everything.

[Putnam]

Toady says that should get optimized in a few versions. So yay.

In the next version.

Ok, tried to play a .40 fort a little while ago. 7 dwarves on embark, Ironhand graphics, running Linux mode on a mountainous embark with no surface water or anything else.

115 FPS.

The cap is set to 300.

Based on comments in other sections of the website, that's about normal. It only gets slower from there. The living world is bogging down the processor checking every other entity at every site to make sure they are happy and have socks.

Yeah, I love df but it gets frustratingly slow over time. Atleast 80% of my forts have died to fps and the rest I basically embarked on extreme evil biomes or something along those lines. Sometimes I wish he would spend a solid 6 months just to optimize things, but I guess we cant have everything.

The next version's calendar is ten times faster than current version's.

[Guthbug]

ALL successful forts end up in lag death. That's been consistent in every version or mod I've ever played.

I normally limit population down to no more than 50 and do all the various anti-lag things you see in the wiki, but sooner or later for various reasons, if the fort is successful, the FPS will drop to a point where it's no longer enjoyable for me to play.

I have read before that a big part of it is the death screen where it keeps track of every deer, kobold thief, or legendary goblin warrior who was ever slain, but I don't know for sure that statement is true.

I have been able to successfully play .40 a few times before, but only when I ran a very short history. This time I ran 63 years and that seems to be too much for my ancient laptop.

[Putnam]

That statement is true. DFHack can be set up to regularly remove stuff from that.

[Guthbug]

That statement is true. DFHack can be set up to regularly remove stuff from that.

How? I regularly use DFHACK to fix many of the lag-producing issues, but I wasn't aware of that one.

CLEAN ALL to get rid of the contaminants.

CLEANOWNED SCATTERED to pick up garbage.

AUTODUMP DESTROY to clear out junk and remove it from the game.

[therahedwig]

Uhm, I don't play masterwork, I only poked my head in here to see what you guys were up to...

To chip in on the discussion.

I think al Putnam is annoyed about is that due to Masterwork's popularity, people are misunderstanding what the game is.

Now, this is not about what your favourite part of DF is, but rather about false advertising, and Toady putting in two years to do a lot of really important things for the game... and getting backlash, because people want a dungeon keeper clone, and are expecting a dungeon keeper clone.
And that makes me sad, and I suspect Putnam as well.

The actual problem that comes with this is the difference between Toady and Meph: Toady lives of donations, and Meph, I assume, has a job and does this as his hobby.
It is in all of our best interests to keep the donation flow to toady strong.
When a certain subsection of players remark to each other that 'yeah 0.40 is nice, but I enjoy masterwork more', that statement by itself is not problematic. However, if they only speak to each other, you get an echo chamber effect, a tantrum spiral if you will: suddenly it's not 'yeah 0.40 is nice, but', but '0.40 sucks', and more rebelious things like 'oh, we should not bother with Toady and vanilla because it's dumb', eventually leading to decreasing donations.
True, Meph has little to do with this, but perhaps, as a subforum, you could make some simple ettiquette to remind each other that despite enjoying masterwork far more you are really looking forward to new releases. I have no doubt everyone has here has an item on the dev list they'll be squeeling for. (like the mentioned sending armies out to defend off-map villages)

To give a push in a more positive direction: Meph, have you already got ideas for the new growths and item clouds?

Edit:
btw, the deep changes that were made are not for adventure mode only. They are most visible in adventure mode, but without it, no significant new mechanics can be introduced to fort mode. The activated world lays the groundwork for sending out armies, receiving more realistic trade goods, fortress mode tavern, having a random group of 9 adventurers with a ring pop up and suddenly you are under constant siege of goblins, fort religion, etc.
Seriously, we've got so many awesome things to look forward to thanks to the activated world.

[Guthbug]

Uhm, I don't play masterwork ...

That was the point I lost interest.

[Putnam]

Uhm, I don't play masterwork ...

That was the point I lost interest.

And they say I'm a jerk. Try reading the post. It's pretty well thought-out, and it actually does get what I'm saying.

[Guthbug]

And they say I'm a jerk. Try reading the post. It's pretty well thought-out, and it actually does get what I'm saying.

Oh, I read it, but this is the MASTERWORK subforum. Does this guy go to cat forums and say, "Hey, you should tone down your enthusiasm about cats because you're making lions feel bad?"

I would expect that, if it exists anywhere at all in the universe, that you might find people with enthusiasm about the masterwork mod particularly in the Masterwork forum. Someone who doesn't play the mod wants to come caution us that we might be hurting someone's revenue stream by expressing our enjoyment of the mode to each other?

I just don't get people and their expectations.

[therahedwig]

And they say I'm a jerk. Try reading the post. It's pretty well thought-out, and it actually does get what I'm saying.

Oh, I read it, but this is the MASTERWORK subforum. Does this guy go to cat forums and say, "Hey, you should tone down your enthusiasm about cats because you're making lions feel bad?"

I would expect that, if it exists anywhere at all in the universe, that you might find people with enthusiasm about the masterwork mod particularly in the Masterwork forum. Someone who doesn't play the mod wants to come caution us that we might be hurting someone's revenue stream by expressing our enjoyment of the mode to each other?

I just don't get people and their expectations.

Oh, but you can be as enthuasiastic as you wanna be.

I'm just trying to see if we can make that enthusiasm durable. If the masterwork subforum hecomes an ivory tower because the people posting inside have such a different culture from the people outside it, that would be really sad, wouldn't it?

[Putnam]

And they say I'm a jerk. Try reading the post. It's pretty well thought-out, and it actually does get what I'm saying.

Oh, I read it, but this is the MASTERWORK subforum. Does this guy go to cat forums and say, "Hey, you should tone down your enthusiasm about cats because you're making lions feel bad?"

Not a very good analogy when cats aren't entirely reliant on something else to exist.

Not just that, but the fact that he doesn't play Masterwork doesn't have any bearing on what he's saying. I don't play Masterwork. I've developed for Masterwork and my stuff is used a lot in Masterwork, but I don't play it.