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Poll

I play/prefer...

Vanilla DF 40.x
Still playing Masterwork for DF 34.x
Both equally.
Both, mostly the new vanilla.
Both, mostly Masterwork.

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Author Topic: Poll - MDF or DF40.x ?  (Read 26980 times)

Samarkand

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Re: Poll - MDF or DF40.x ?
« Reply #120 on: August 02, 2014, 02:12:28 pm »

I don't have the patience or energy to help debug .40 so... sticking with .34 and/or MDF.

It's not even that buggy anymore...
Yeah, it's stable and fairly fast now.
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Meph

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Re: Poll - MDF or DF40.x ?
« Reply #121 on: August 02, 2014, 02:16:51 pm »

Dfhack at 8% though.
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Putnam

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Re: Poll - MDF or DF40.x ?
« Reply #122 on: August 02, 2014, 02:18:39 pm »

Dfhack at 8% though.

8% with over 50% checked working by a script. Plus, it worked for 0.40.04, which is how I isolated the dwarven gay gene and learned about cultural identities that creatures can have (I.E a dwarf who sympathizes with elves or what-have-you).

Meph

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Re: Poll - MDF or DF40.x ?
« Reply #123 on: August 02, 2014, 02:20:44 pm »

It worked for 40.4 ? You mean I can download 40.4 and some dfhack dev version, and it runs?
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Putnam

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Re: Poll - MDF or DF40.x ?
« Reply #124 on: August 02, 2014, 04:27:26 pm »

Yes.

Guthbug

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Re: Poll - MDF or DF40.x ?
« Reply #125 on: August 02, 2014, 05:19:17 pm »

Any ideas on how far away timewise we are from a MDF/.40 test build?

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Meph

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Re: Poll - MDF or DF40.x ?
« Reply #126 on: August 02, 2014, 05:28:10 pm »

~2 months.
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draeath

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Re: Poll - MDF or DF40.x ?
« Reply #127 on: August 02, 2014, 05:39:57 pm »

Jeez, you all work quick! (and no, that is NOT sarcasm!)
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Guthbug

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Re: Poll - MDF or DF40.x ?
« Reply #128 on: August 02, 2014, 05:45:53 pm »

Two months is good!
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Putnam

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Re: Poll - MDF or DF40.x ?
« Reply #129 on: August 02, 2014, 05:55:14 pm »

Jeez, you all work quick! (and no, that is NOT sarcasm!)

I know it seems kinda like oneupmanship or being a downer, but you don't really have anything to compare to when it comes to this, so you can't know whether he works quick. I mean, compared to mine, I'd already updated Sparking by the weeks before release of 0.40.01, updated Fortbent within the day, updated Fantastic within two weeks (which was updating every creature in that, plus all the entities; pretty much only waiting on DFHack right now)... and those don't really compare to the sheer volume of stuff Masterwork has, so they don't really mean anything. So, yeah, can't really say whether that's actually fast or not since there's nothing to compare it to.

Meph

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Re: Poll - MDF or DF40.x ?
« Reply #130 on: August 02, 2014, 06:07:26 pm »

But I do work more than all other modders (thanks to donations and doing this almost full time)

Its two months because the mod needs to be updated to dfhack r5, then DF2014, which means I have to wait for all the utilities. Up to that point, its no work for me at all. Then I need to update it, but in the meantime I plan more travels. In 10 days I leave for Ireland, 15 days of hiking. After that I have to plan more for the winter tour I want to do in Siberia and Mongolia, all the way to china, north/south-korea and japan.

I did work a lot on the humans, then travel, then update to dfhack r5, then plan RL tours, then probably/maybe update to DF2014, then go travelling again.
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Guthbug

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Re: Poll - MDF or DF40.x ?
« Reply #131 on: August 02, 2014, 06:31:54 pm »

I'm wondering what the wifi is like in Siberia.
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Putnam

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Re: Poll - MDF or DF40.x ?
« Reply #132 on: August 05, 2014, 09:47:54 pm »

"Those 5 people [who play mods other than Masterwork] are probably pretty confused too." - Reddit

But I do work more than all other modders (thanks to donations and doing this almost full time)

I would just love to do this, but I guess Dwarf Fortress's community isn't big enough to support more than one modder.

If you couldn't tell, I'm pretty serious about this because I have an actual emotional investment into this. I have spent at least 2000 hours in this crap and I get shit like that flung at me. I'm not going to leave because I actually enjoy modding DF, but as of now that's one of the few things keeping me.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2014, 09:54:08 pm by Putnam »
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Meph

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Re: Poll - MDF or DF40.x ?
« Reply #133 on: August 06, 2014, 04:42:37 am »

I worked more than 2000 hours on this as well. Over the course of 3 years, on a single mod. If you dont count that accelerated spin-off. But I dont do total conversions, like Homestuck or TES. Because there are not enough people to play those to justify the work put into it. (from my point of view) Otherwise I would have written a Stacraft TC and a Shadowrun TC. Both things I know and enjoy quite a bit.

No one flung shit in your direction, at least as far as I know. I hope.

I cant work fulltime on DF sustained by MDF donations. I have several other sources of passive income. Over the last three months, in which I got the highest donations so far, I got ~500$ in May, ~500$ in June, (both exception because of the fundraiser and me posting donation links on the board, reddit and facebook), and ~200$ in July. Some months its 20-50$. The first 2 years it was nothing. Overall, after 3 years, I earned as much as I would get in one month in any random IT job here in Germany. The two fundraisers are more for my conscience, to justify to myself that I can work that much on DF. I dont lose money, that way. Kinda. But no one in Europe (or the US in your case) could make a living from this. My plan is actually to wait a bit, and after the MDF-to-DF2014-update set up a Patreon, for a lower, but steadier income stream. If its 100 people giving 1$ thats perfectly fine by me, as long as its something I can plan for. I really dont want to monetize the mod, but I dont see any moral shortcomings in giving people the option to donate.

Now my lifestyle is a bit different from most others, I wouldnt work as an employee anyway... and I mostly stay and write DF mods because of three reasons:

1. Its purely mental/creative work, which is different from my usual hard physical labor (mountaineering, cycling, cross-country hikes)
2. It creates something, somthing that other people do enjoy (a couple of thousand at least, which is nice.)
3. I am good at it and get positive feedback.

Now you are also good at it. And got positive feedback, but less. But thats not about the modder, its not because of you, its because of the project. Take Boltguns Succubi. A perfectly fine mod on its own. It has <500 downloads, across all versions. The thread has 328 replies and 20k views. Its 1,5 years old. Now compare that to the MDF Succubus thread. Its from end of May this year, so just over 2 months old. About the same number of replies, 311, and 10k views. It gets much more exposure. Why? Because its a good mod, with a fun race, embedded in MDF which has the GUI, 20 tilesets, utilities, blablabla. Its the LNP of mods.

Lets compare mods to tilesets. If you post a tileset in the tileset section and tell people to download and install it, you get very few people that do that, and even less feedback. On the other hand, if you directly write PeridexisErrant and have it added into the LNP, it gets so much more exposure and more people to play it.

That is what I am doing with the humans at the moment as well. Bay12. Reddit. Facebook. Flowcharts, Tutorial fort, succession fort... producing content content content for people to see. The more people see it, the more will try, the more will produce content on their own, snowball effect. (Splint will know what I mean, we just talked about it, because he asked about Orcs or Humans, and I said Humans, of course.)

Now lets assume you want to make modding your profession. You can either fight your competitor (MDF) for users, or you can join and work on the same project. Which would at the current state not generate income for you either way. A new project is to small to ask for donations, and working on MDF currently only gives me donations, as well as hopefully Splinterz. I added his donate link to the new manual. Without his therapist we would all be lost. I actually dont know if he gets any donations on regular basis, or how much.

The problem you face is that you made many smaller mods, instead of one large one. People dislike change (in general, sorry guys, its true) and wont jump from Mod X to Mod Y to Mod Z. I act the same, I played exclusively Genesis before I started modding.

The only way that I can think of for your to earn something with DF-based modding is something like a kickstarter. Even I with the largest customer base of all modders here, get 0-200$ a month if I dont do something special. Toady just got 15.000$, and >3000$ on average, so we the modding community, dont really affect that.

If you set out and make a plan, make a thread about it here, on reddit, anywhere else where people might be interested. And say: Hi, I am Putnam, maker of X mods, one of the best modders DF has (I for example think that you are better than me when it comes to the coding part, and you know dfhack!) will make Mod X with this and that deadline, a project outline of what the mod should offer (I dont know what project would interest you, but I can think of two things that people would pay for: 1. A MDF-like mod that has a GUI, but reverts completely back to vanilla if everything is set to off. Essentially a LNP for mods, but more modular than MDF. Sorry Milo Christiansen, I know rubble exists, but its too hard to get into. And 2. A MDF race, which I know works, because I have done it twice now.), and a set amount of money you need to make it happen (You are a student right? Take 1-2 months at summer break, or whatever you in the US have, or take a semester off for a larger project.) than I think it would work. After speaking to Toady One. From my experience he say "Yeah, good luck, but dont tie anything remotely finance-based back to me, I am afraid of lawsuits and responsibility for semi-endorsed third-party content, so dont do it on bay12."

Of course that would be for 1-2 months. Not fulltime, all the time. But I dont do that either. I could try, and I think I could do it for a year, but I wouldnt be able to get enough money from DF alone. Than again, a potato salad kickstarter got tens of thousands of dollars, and a webcomic I read gets sixthousand dollars a month... ^^

But in the end, no one here is in it for the money, not even Toady. Its for the user. I certainly would have never expected to get money from this when I started.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2014, 06:06:27 am by Meph »
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Putnam

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Re: Poll - MDF or DF40.x ?
« Reply #134 on: August 06, 2014, 09:44:51 am »

Neither do I, it's just that the fact that you get money at all says something about how much this has spiraled.

Not only that, but I've mostly stopped making the small mods. The DBZ mod still says 0.40.02 because I've forgotten to update it to say 0.40.06. Those mods are going to get updated to 0.40 and then I'm going to work on Fantastic for the rest of the time as I have been when it comes to modding, but Fantastic isn't nearly as popular. My main problem with devlogs is that I'm too fast to work on them (Dark Wizard Tower took me probably a day and it's a total overhaul of the game with a completely different method of making items and an in general different way of playing) and I really don't like showing things before they're done (because they tend to die or simply be just kinda stuff, like, whatever). I took a long time updating Fantastic, but that was boring copy+pasting of stuff from vanilla files into it for the 0.40 update; I updated the mod manager to include categories, but devlogs there would be "still doesn't work. Still doesn't work. Now it works, but there's a problem. Now it works." Fortbent was the only time I ever really made devlogs for everything and that was stupid because I thought having 144 classes was a good idea. I can't publicize as much as you because everything I do is either impossible to use or pretty much done and all the people don't care about not-Masterwork.

Yes, shit's thrown at me whenever I say that it's probably a bad thing that nobody plays any other mods. I say you shouldn't tell newbies to play it and they like that sentiment but for completely different reasons from what I mean. I don't get much positive feedback. I don't get much feedback at all. I post on reddit, nobody cares because it's not Masterwork. Every time.
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