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[Melting Sky]

This was brought up in a thread about wrestlers but the problem doesn't seem to be restricted to dwarves who are more skilled in unarmed combat than with a weapon.

I've mostly noticed during my arena combat testing that a dwarven weapon lord, armed with his weapon of choice and with no other combat skills, will still use his axe to attack less than half the time. They are more likely to throw punches, kicks, scratches and bites than to strike with their weapon. This even occurs during no quarter combat so the dwarf should be using the most lethal force they can.

My combat experience in fortress mode has been much more limited in this new version, but when I think back on it, there seemed to be a lot of punching and kicking going on there as well.

My guess is this is likely a bug. Dwarves have always thrown punches and kicks of opportunity but they generally favored their weapons when armed in past versions.

Has anyone else noticed this behavior?

[sal880612m]

I noticed it a bit in adventure mode when I didn't aim my attacks. Probably has something to do with non-lethal combat being implemented.

[Panando]

I have run a number of fortress games, using squad of 2 sparring as zealously as ever (for me) and embarking with proficient weapon users. Typically, but not absolutely always, dwarves wrestling and striking skills will before too long surpass their weapon skill. Shield User and especially dodger seem to be training [relatively] faster than they used to. Fighter trains just as fast as always. Attribute gain rate does not seem to be affected.

This new weakness in weapons does mean it takes a lot longer for dwarves to become truly effective, parrying is absolutely essential to 'filling in the gaps' left by shield blocking, and lower weapon user means less frequent parrying. They also use their weapon less effectively, and perhaps even more damaging is just the fact that they use their weapon less often. The fact that weapon skill is training much slower indicates they really are using it much less often, not just slipping in 'extra' attacks of opportunity or whatever you might call them.

I would estimate it takes perhaps 3-4x as long for dwarves to reach the same combat-effectiveness as in .34.

I am not sure if large squad training rate is increased over .34, it might be, they certainly seem to gain some skills quite quickly, like dodger, but all in all this requires more examination. I can't say because I've been using the DFhack fix which increases large squad training rate.

[Gukag]

Individual training sessions seem to train only the weapon, dodging, discipline skills. Having a barracks set to train a squad yet not activating them in the alert screen will only allow them those training sessions, meaning weapon skill goes up without training wrestling skills. Doesn't seem to make dwarves more likely to use their weapon in combat however, no matter how high the weap skill and how low the wrestling, biting, striking, kicking ones.

[greycat]

Bug 7063 is open for this.  Might be worth adding a few more data points to it.

[Iamblichos]

Yes, I noticed this but I've only dipped my toe in the new versions.  All of my militia are listed as "wrestlers", despite having weapons training and having weapons assigned and equipped as part of their uniforms.

[Rum]

I just assumed that those were the new multiple attacks going into effect.   

[martinuzz]

I do hope this can get some priority in bug fixing.
Fortress military has been broken / not functioning as intended for so, so many years now.

[Spacespinner]

Noticing a lot (more than two thirds) of the combat log when a dwarf gets caught by goblins involves the goblins punching them instead of using weapons as well.

[martinuzz]

I guess it is a double-edged fist

[Spacespinner]

One example recently.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Obibun]

+1 on this issue

I have a squad of about 8 dwarves, 4 axe, 1 hammer, 3 spears who are all at least skilled/competent or better in their respective weaponry

yesterday I had an elven ambush (apparently I started at war with them? which explains why their caravans never came) and my dwarves went out

a good 50-70% of the attacks were punches, bites, kicks, etc

I also wish this would get fixed.... military has been broken for so long, I almost can't believe adventure mode had so much content added while after years basic military concerns are still broken

although it was pretty entertaining when one of my dwarves punched his gauntleted fist into an elf's head and it exploded into gore, momentarily horrifying said dwarf

[Spacespinner]

although it was pretty entertaining when one of my dwarves punched his gauntleted fist into an elf's head and it exploded into gore, momentarily horrifying said dwarf

I'd be pretty horrified if someone's head exploded when I punched them as well.

[Panando]

There are many things wrong with this combat log!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

1) What exactly is a "monkey man" isn't that a.... man?
2) You bit off a toe?!
3) That manuvere with grabbing a finger with the shield, and another with the sword, 1) wtf and 2) couldn't you just have... cut the fingers off with the sword? Just saying.
4) Dear Armok Urist Mc Swordsdorf! You're kissing a monkey!

[Melting Sky]

It definitely looks like this is combat behavior extends to all races and combatants. It will benefit larger creatures and hamper smaller ones as a large creatures will tend to have quite effective natural attacks where as something like a kobold or even an unskilled dwarf needs a weapon to do any real damage to a decent enemy.

I like that there is so much variety in battle but I think an armed creature in lethal combat should use their weapon more often than not. Something like a 2 or 3 to 1 ratio seems more in line with what it should be. Right now its not even 1 to 1.