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Author Topic: In adventure mode site, put pairs of items into same container  (Read 1081 times)

Khym Chanur

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If your adventurer goes looting through containers at a site, and finds a left gauntlet, the matching right gauntlet will almost always be in some other container in the same room.  It'd be less frustrating if items which come in pairs were always together in the same container.
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Deepblade

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Re: In adventure mode site, put pairs of items into same container
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2014, 07:29:36 am »

What'd be less frustrating, imo, is if paired items were treated as one item. That way we don't have Iron Left Gauntlet and Iron Right Gauntlet, we'd have Iron Gauntlets and it'd give protection over both hands, be one item, thus reducing clutter of boots, socks, and gloves by 50%, you wouldn't have to deal with one glove being a masterwork and the other being exceptional, and it'd allow artifact boots / gauntlets to be one pair of stuck together items rather than a single item.
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snjwffl

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Re: In adventure mode site, put pairs of items into same container
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2014, 07:35:36 pm »

One thing to be careful of, though, is what constitutes "paired"; it's not always the case that there is an obvious "pair" of things.  This can be seen in dwarf mode, in that a single "make gauntlets" job can produce a masterwork left gauntlet and an exceptional right gauntlet.  Should these two still be tied together? (in which case your left hand would be better protected than your right) or should the masterwork be paired with a masterwork? (in which case the new masterwork's partner now needs a partner itself).  This doesn't arise for computer-generated sites (I think), as everything has an obvious partner.  However, one of the great things about DF is that your fortresses become visitable sites in adventure mode, and so the adventurer code has to accommodate the dwarf mode situation.

This wouldn't be an issue if pairs were required to be the same quality*, or if a pair counted as one item.  However, I actually like this feature:  there are times when a person only needs one boot/gauntlet (e.g. if they only have one leg).  In these situations, treating the pair as one item would double the weight the poor cripple needs to lug around.  Finally, you can do cool things the way it is now, such as creating platinum crutch-wielding soldiers with relative ease: stick the subject in a danger room, fully armored except for one foot.

*Actually, the conflict also arises unavoidably with decorating equipment: if you treat them as different items, then they can be encrusted/decorated separately.
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Deepblade

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Re: In adventure mode site, put pairs of items into same container
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2014, 09:51:26 pm »

By paired items I mean worn items that you need 2 of to complete the set. Essentially anything that gets equipped on the hands or feet.
Instead of a "make gauntlets" job producing a Left and a Right Gauntlet, and both of those having a separate quality modifiers, the job would be changed to create a single Item that grants coverage over both hands and could be called "Steel Gauntlets". It wouldn't be 2 separate items handled as one, it would be one item with all language that refers to it as being plural. Thus, no decoration conflict as the dwarf is technically decorating one item, but is understood in the descriptions and language as having decorated both of the gauntlets..

Where weight is concerned, a single Steel High Boot weighs 3Γ, and a steel gauntlet weighs 1Γ. The extra weight is marginal imo, but when worn by a dwarf missing the appropriate second limb it wouldn't apply the extra weight since the limb is missing. And, while we're on the subject of weight, a steel flask weighs 7Γ compared to a Steel Mace which only weighs 6Γ. How crazy is that? We should use those are blunt weapons instead. First we bash your skull in with it, then we slate our thirst.

I think that system would be simpler over all. The items aren't produced in singles, and if a single boot is stolen/goes missing, you'd be creating 2 anyways.
If you have 100 dwarves each need 2 boots, and 2 socks if you're generous. That's 200-400 items right there. Do this though and it'd cut the amount of all foot and hand worn items by 50%, thus saving a bit of FPS.
Lastly, the artifacts. You wouldn't have mismatched artifact gauntlets or boots.
The only downsides, imo, is that some people like that little extra bit of complexity. And, artifact gauntlets and boots might be a little more epic if produced in singles.
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Bumber

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Re: In adventure mode site, put pairs of items into same container
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2014, 02:40:27 am »

What'd be less frustrating, imo, is if paired items were treated as one item. That way we don't have Iron Left Gauntlet and Iron Right Gauntlet, we'd have Iron Gauntlets and it'd give protection over both hands, be one item, thus reducing clutter of boots, socks, and gloves by 50%, you wouldn't have to deal with one glove being a masterwork and the other being exceptional, and it'd allow artifact boots / gauntlets to be one pair of stuck together items rather than a single item.
I think you're forgetting to take into account that not everyone has exactly two hands (e.g. amputees and antmen.)
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Deepblade

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Re: In adventure mode site, put pairs of items into same container
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2014, 09:07:52 am »

What'd be less frustrating, imo, is if paired items were treated as one item. That way we don't have Iron Left Gauntlet and Iron Right Gauntlet, we'd have Iron Gauntlets and it'd give protection over both hands, be one item, thus reducing clutter of boots, socks, and gloves by 50%, you wouldn't have to deal with one glove being a masterwork and the other being exceptional, and it'd allow artifact boots / gauntlets to be one pair of stuck together items rather than a single item.
I think you're forgetting to take into account that not everyone has exactly two hands (e.g. amputees and antmen.)

Where weight is concerned, a single Steel High Boot weighs 3Γ, and a steel gauntlet weighs 1Γ. The extra weight is marginal imo, but when worn by a dwarf missing the appropriate second limb it wouldn't apply the extra weight since the limb is missing.
I didn't forget. We could just infer that a Dwarf is always issued a left and a right gauntlet by the fortress and the Dwarf is responsible for taking care of both even if he can only wear one. He just stashes the unused one in a safe place. Where it gets iffy is when a dwarf loses a hand while wearing the gauntlet, thus technically separating the left and right from the same location. When we can recombine stacks, in that situation maybe it could be treated as 1/2 of a stack of Gauntlets.
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