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[FantasticDorf]

It sounds like something could be done from the manager itself to be even more realistic. Job asignations in times of need could work like that

If automated labor-enabling was an option disabled by default, I can see it being nifty. I tend to dump desired labors on random dwarves that aren't doing anything at the moment. o3o

Workshop profiles additionally so would help clean up the messiness of all the dwarves running to do a job if you wanted your specialists to get on with it now that i think about it.

[DG]

From memory, the brothers don't like to think of goblins as having to bother with things like farming (or any of the broader economics that come from having to eat).

They're defined as bone-eating carnivores.

Yeah, I know. I'm just sharing what I recall. But seeing as Footkerchief isn't here to do it for me, I decided to dredge up the post my memory is referencing. I can't seem to quote link it, either because the thread is locked or I'm dumb, so here's the search link http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=60554.msg2243858#msg2243858 and a screenshot for people's convenience.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I think there was quite a debate about it before (or maybe after?) the Word-of-Toad pictured above, I can't quite recall. If people are interested they can skim the linked thread looking for the discussion, or just debate it again here which would probably cover most of what was brought up then.

Edit: Re-did the screenshot without cutting off Toady's bit this time 

[DarkwingUK]

Dear Toady,

In general we as a player have an overview of all of the map that we have previously revealed in fortressed mode. So, we see when creatures arrive in the distant caverns or at the corner of the map, even if there is not a dwarf there to see it. I was wondering whether this was a design decision on your part (that the player has more of a god-like overview of the map), or whether in the future you were considering making a traditional fog-of-war type situation where revealed parts of the map would be known, but the state of the map in those places, and any creatures in those places would only be updated if a dwarf was there to see that area directly. limegreen

[Random_Dragon]

That is nuts. It makes no bloody sense to have goblins unable to eat. Sure, having goblin herders sounds not-scary, but code-wise I've seen no actual problems with goblins ever starving as-is with the NOEAT and NODRINK tokens removed.

Making them able to eat has no visible effect as far as I can tell, and if anything having them able to eat, while having no apparent source of mundane livestock, being carnivorous, AND their entity being okay with cannibalism, seems infinitely more morbid than "herpderp we are unable to starve despite the fact that you'd never see us starve in-game anyway."

[Bumber]

That is nuts. It makes no bloody sense to have goblins unable to eat. Sure, having goblin herders sounds not-scary, but code-wise I've seen no actual problems with goblins ever starving as-is with the NOEAT and NODRINK tokens removed.

Making them able to eat has no visible effect as far as I can tell, and if anything having them able to eat, while having no apparent source of mundane livestock, being carnivorous, AND their entity being okay with cannibalism, seems infinitely more morbid than "herpderp we are unable to starve despite the fact that you'd never see us starve in-game anyway."

And besides the fact that they actually do farm trolls for fur, they could also hunt and gather.

It really doesn't explain no thirst, either. Only dwarves are alcohol dependent, water is fine for everyone else.

[Random_Dragon]

My assumption was that it was meant to prevent players from starving out goblin invaders, but I can't recall if invaders have EVER needed food and water.

Possibly there were planned to or did at some point, and Toady then found a nonsensical lore reason after forgetting that those tokens are no longer needed. :V

[FantasticDorf]

It really doesn't explain no thirst, either. Only dwarves are alcohol dependent, water is fine for everyone else.

I contest this, it has been shown that historical violence attaches itself (its why vampires & goblins when observed via modding/otherwise complain of lack of alcohol) as a side effect to trauma and later psychological effects.

There is SOME application of goblins drinking for pleasure in formalised drinking establishments (its the only way to get it down them), but as of yet no formalised eating establishments (as per banquet halls scaling all the way to +finely crafted potato chip+ tavern speciality meals.) for pushing those roasts down their neck if they are going to be snotty about it. (else they are just feeding it to their mounts or the trolls i suppose.)

Could imagine that goblins besides being underlings themselves, probably view such tasks as beneath them and would much rather dote on stolen children/slaves/POW to do the job instead to disillusion themselves on power and re-enforce the image of violence. Take also as i've mentioned before, nearly all the materials the goblins source must come from somewhere, so obviously there is some kind of domestic workforce behind the goblin regime, even if they are relatively light workers (troll heavy hauling etc)

Goblins have lots of holes in their raws anyway that have to be covered by modding to make them feasable (which in itself is quite fun when brought up to primitive iron age dwarf spec, with a few new spins on the conventional angles such as managing lawlessness and frequent violence when turtling, inversely encouraging a head on aggressive approach) such as no brewable or vaguely usable harvestables (not even for very devious goblinesque poisons) besides from silver barb plants of their own biome for gutter cruor & black dye (which might be bugged since they never embark with the products of those goods - however it may be the case i never enabled the raws)

Even glumprong (also might be bug, though it is a common cart & evil biome material, i dont recollect when civ swapping seeing it on embark) is neglected by goblins but that may well be down to circumstances of location and raw relations. Officially beak dogs are common scout worldgen animals, which arent to say they arent lucrative when pimped up with good raws to enable them as pets as chickens on steroids that drop stones on death which is honestly the best.

I can only guess that goblins are fueled much more innately by demonic magic than other races that merely wrap it around themselves otherwise they'd be trash level jabberer feed. Non conventional techniques for coercion including torture may reinforce this. Maybe it'll show its true colours sometime in the future.

Question for toady.

Given the upcoming eventual magic arc, do goblins themselves (as either underlings, selfmade masters through overtaking demonic masters or individuals) have access to any particular 'school', alternatively 'branch' of exclusive magic? or do they remain a largely mundane or magically generic race when the big supernatural being leading them suddenly ceases to exist in the mortal world?

To be honest, with any host of filth, night, fire, or death sphere demons frontrunning those armies its going to be pretty intense on the magic effects that are open to use and potentially learn from. Taking tutorship from demons in the schools of magic upon binding them to yourself sounds like a nice bonus to a already very strong but unpredictable companion. At the expense of probably being branded a outcast and a heretical/unholy and un-natural warlock that is.

[Witty]

Now that adventurers can put items on tables and there's a bit of picking-up going on in adventure mode with muggers and tavern keepers picking up dropped items, is there any plan for shopkeepers to start storing their stock on tables or in containers instead of all over the shop floor?

Shopkeepers will already put their wares on tables...sometimes.

I'm thinking it's based on the local economy and what's available (and there are probably bugs associated with it somewhere). But if the stars align right, they should do it.

Toady, now that we have proper taverns in human towns and dwarven fortresses, do you have plans to go back and have dwarven hillocks create proper taverns? Right now they still use fake taverns that just have drunks milling around. And will we ever see drunks in proper taverns ?

[PatrikLundell]

The problem with the non eating/drinking goblins are that at the same time as they're thus minor demons and great scourges of the world, they're ALSO just another race that freely integrates into other civs, and freely integrate other races within themselves. I think there is a need to decide whether goblins are minor demons (and thus not needing food or drink), intent on enslaving, killing, and burning all others, OR they're just another race, although with a demonic affinity and a cruelty approaching that of (at least some) RL humans.

In the first case, they ought to never surrender: either fleeing or fighting, but not accept being subservient to others (unless they're supposed to be sleeper agents). Also, they shouldn't be at peace with anyone: the only two modes would be war and not a current primary target (--------).
In the second case they can continue along the current path, but eat and drink like everyone else.
My personal preference is the second one. I'd welcome the introduction of a new "true" demonic race taking up the de facto vacant first position, though.

[Repseki]

Actually here's an open question for anyone that knows, what happens to artifacts now if an adventurer dies with one away from a site? Just drowns or something. Is it lost?

I only recently jump back in DF so I might have missed something that changes it, but I don't believe artifacts being taken by adventurers really works that great at the moment, causing them to kinda poof once you aren't in the loaded area with them, if outside an actual site. They can be a bit weird even at sites from what I remember.

Hopefully someone that knows more can weigh in.

[DG]

That goblins cannot die of starvation need not mean they won't eat, indeed they may feel hunger and enjoy eating, see: The Nations of Man http://bay12games.com/dwarves/story/tt_nation.html

Excerpt: "They only hoped their families would be enslaved instead of burned alive and devoured by hungry goblins."

I wouldn't get too hung up on goblins as they stand (good advice for most of the game), whether you think no-eat is dumb or great. I don't think they are set in stone in Tarn and Zach's minds yet. You can take that as an invitation to lobby for your ideal version of them but that should probably be done in Suggestions. Personally, I think the brother's ideas for goblins are pretty cool, and I quite like the goblins as they appear in Cado's Magical Journey.

[Random_Dragon]

I mostly just think that having goblins unable to starve or dehydrate is an an oddity that's visible now that goblins can migrate and become playable without modding.

It's a gameplay workaround (again, sieges) that did not originally have a logical lore reason behind it, and giving it a lore reason just sounds idiotic. I suppose it's fine to have it as a gameplay advantage, but I still disagree with the "herpderp goblins are demons and therefore we have a retroactive excuse for a no-longer-needed logistical workaround" idea. :V

[Imic]

Could the humans have better architecture? Right now they're living in wooden boxes. Could we have architecture like... Gilneas? Maybe?

[Urlance Woolsbane]

Could the humans have better architecture? Right now they're living in wooden boxes. Could we have architecture like... Gilneas? Maybe?

Sites are still rather preliminary, at present. Taverns aren't even generated in Dark Fortresses that purportedly have them, and Fortresses are absurdly mazy. I believe the plan is for human architecture to eventually vary from civ to civ, but that's probably a ways off.

I would be highly surprised if Toady planned the mass-produced boxes-style of architecture to be part of 1.00.

[monk12]

It's a gameplay workaround (again, sieges) that did not originally have a logical lore reason behind it, and giving it a lore reason just sounds idiotic.

Citation needed, sir.

Back when I started playing, goblins did not have NO_EAT or NO_DRINK. They were carnivores who were just assumed to raise lots of livestock and eat offscreen (much like the Humans and Elves.) The reason they got those tags was when the Caravan Arc started, one of the first changes was that civs started needing to have sources of food or they'd starve- at that point it was a conscious decision to make the goblin race more unique and "alien" rather than just being "they're like elves but evil."

You'll note that when goblins acquired NO_EAT and NO_DRINK, Humans and Elves did not; this isn't a case where all invaders had those tags to keep them from siegeing themselves to death, it was very deliberately goblin-specific. You might think it's kinda dumb and weird (I did myself at first) but to suggest that it's a "gameplay workaround" that they decided to prop up as lore is just false.