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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 1884116 times)

FearfulJesuit

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1755 on: April 26, 2015, 04:21:10 pm »

Quote
Today I got to work on some dwarfy library stuff -- like heating limestone and related minerals in the kiln for the quicklime, and then making "milk of lime" with that, so that the animal hides can be soaked and turned into parchment. The extra steps are there because both sorts of lime can be used for many other purposes which we will get to in later releases.

What sort of other uses do you envision?
« Last Edit: April 26, 2015, 04:22:55 pm by FearfulJesuit »
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@Footjob, you can microwave most grains I've tried pretty easily through the microwave, even if they aren't packaged for it.

Mel_Vixen

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1756 on: April 26, 2015, 04:51:07 pm »

Quote
Today I got to work on some dwarfy library stuff -- like heating limestone and related minerals in the kiln for the quicklime, and then making "milk of lime" with that, so that the animal hides can be soaked and turned into parchment. The extra steps are there because both sorts of lime can be used for many other purposes which we will get to in later releases.

What sort of other uses do you envision?

Well lets do some quick wikisurfing: Quicklime was used in cement, plaster and may have been used as ignitionsource in greek fire. You can use quicklime to absorb Airmoisture which might help with preserving food and as heatsource for food (selfheating meals). It is also used in certain fertilizers to regulate acidity. Its used to pull sulfur from raw-iron, its E number is E529, was used in producing soap as well as a bleaching powder which doubled as a pretty effective desinfection powder.

So i would say there are some possibilities :P
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blue sam3

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1757 on: April 26, 2015, 04:55:37 pm »

What is the definition of a k-chain of polyhedrons in a Banach space? What do you mean by a 'sum' of polyhedrons?

Right, we'll go through this one step at a time:

A Banach space is a complete normed vector space. That is: start with a field (probably R or C), and a set. Define two functions: one ("scalar multiplication") that takes an element of your set (we'll call them vectors) and an element of your field (we'll call them scalars) and gives you another vector, and another ("addition") that takes two vectors and gives you a third, and have them work exactly as you would expect addition of vectors and scalar multiplication to work in Rn (including having a vector (that we'll call 0) such that 0 + x = x for all vectors x - you can think of this exactly as you would n-dimensional space, except that it may be infinite dimensional, which makes weird stuff happen. Now define a third function (our "norm" - we'll denote the norm of a vector x by |x|) that takes vectors and gives you a non-negative real number that's supposed to represent how "big" that vector is (or "how far it is from zero", if that helps). Have this function be something sensible as far as representing a distance from zero goes (only zero on the zero vector itself, never negative, multiplying the vector by a scalar multiplies the norm by the absolute value of that scalar, and the norm of the sum of two vectors is no bigger than the sum of the norms - if it seems a bit weird that it's an inequality, think about adding the vectors (1,0) and (0,1) in R2, and notice that the line from 0 to (1,1) is shorter than 2.
That brings us to completeness. This one's a little harder to explain, but roughly, it means that there's no gaps in your space (relative to your norm) - for example, the rational numbers aren't complete, they're full of little gaps (the irrational numbers), but the real numbers are (no, I'm not going to prove that here). To be more precise: If we take any infinite sequence of vectors in our space, say it is Cauchy if they are "eventually arbitarily close together" - that is, a sequence (a_n) is Cauchy if, for every e > 0, there is a N such that for all n and m > N,
|a_n - a_m| < e. Say that the sequence converges if there is a vector a in our space such that the vectors are "eventually arbitarily close to a" - that is, (a_n) converges to a if, for every e > 0, there is a N such that for all n > N, |a_n - a| < e. If you think about this for a while, you might think that every Cauchy sequence should converge - and this is precisely what it means for a space to be complete. You can think of Cauchy sequences that don't converge as sequences that are trying to converge, but the thing that they're trying to converge to is missing, roughly (this is where the "no gaps" thing comes from).
Now, if all of that seemed horrible, here's the good news: in finite dimensions, they're all basically the same as Rn with the standard "square the coordinates, add them up and square root it" measure of size that you learnt in school.

I presume you know what "polyhedron" means in normal, 3 dimensional space. Here, we're talking about something that's basically the same, but in a more general banach space: the convex hull of finitely many points in a 3-dimensional subspace of that Banach space (or probably any embedded copy of R3) - what this means is that you take anything in your plane that's basically 3 dimensional (think of taking a flat slice of 3-dimensional space, then try to think about taking a 3d slice of 4d space, then just stop worrying about how many dimensions the big space has), pick some (finitely many) points in it, join them together with lines, and fill in the inside of the shape that you get. There's probably some non-degeneracy condition as well (no picking all of the points in a straight line/plane, probably). He might also be using the term to mean polytopes in general (it makes more sense with the k-chains later); which is exactly the same, except rather than only picking 3d slices, we pick slices of any (finite) number of dimensions n out of our space, then proceed as above (with the non-degeneracy condition (if it exists) now probably being something like "not all lying in the same n-1 dimensional space).

Now, on to sums of things that don't make sense to have sums: This is one of the single least satisfying definitions in all of mathematics, but the formal sum of some set of objects literally just means "write them down with + signs in between (and coefficients on the front so you can write 3x instead of x+x+x)". Whilst there are ways to formalise it with free abelian groups and stuff, basically nobody ever bothers, and that's what it comes down to. You can add things up exactly as you'd expect

A k-chain of polyhedron is now easy to define: it's a formal sum of k-dimensional polytopes (this is why I think he's talking about polytopes in general, rather than 3 dimensional ones in particular - if I were talking about the latter, I'd miss the "k" off the start). You can then define some actual content on these things: you can form something called a group (somewhere you can add up [as above], have something that acts like zero when adding things [the empty chain: the formal sum of no things], and you have a "-x" for every x [the same chain with all coefficients replaced by minus themselves] - all of this is true of general formal sums, and is exactly that formalisation that I was talking about above), and you have a boundary operator, that takes a k-chain of polyhedra, and gives the chain of (k-1 dimensional) polyhedra made up of its faces (so it would take a cube to the sum of the six squares that make up its faces, for example).
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Severedicks

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1758 on: April 27, 2015, 05:17:03 am »

Well thanks for the comprehensive explanation (I should have added that I already knew what Banach spaces are and all that) but my point is more about the sums themselves. Is it like the union of all polytopes in the sum? Does the induced space act as a vector space? For a given polytope [P], how are defined g[P], [P]+[Q] or [-P]?
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reality.auditor

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1759 on: April 27, 2015, 08:03:00 am »

For sake of our melting non-mathematician brains, could you talk about it in separate thread? :P
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Dirst

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1760 on: April 27, 2015, 08:36:00 am »

For sake of our melting non-mathematician brains, could you talk about it in separate thread? :P
I have two very distinct memories of learning the math that I now use quite a bit in my job.  The first was the technique they show you in calculus right after you bang your head against the wall using the "limit as h → 0" method.  The second was learning that subspace is a real scientific term.
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Zarathustra30

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1761 on: April 27, 2015, 03:38:21 pm »

For sake of our melting non-mathematician brains, could you talk about it in separate thread? :P
I have two very distinct memories of learning the math that I now use quite a bit in my job.  The first was the technique they show you in calculus right after you bang your head against the wall using the "limit as h → 0" method.  The second was learning that subspace is a real scientific term.
I was really bothered by that fact, because it means that warp drive in Star Trek actually uses a hyperspace where speed limits do not apply.

Anyway, How many quires fit into a codex, and can they be on multiple subjects?

Great job on all of this. I cannot wait for the upcoming release. I shall acquire all knowledge!
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Inarius

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1762 on: April 28, 2015, 04:42:07 am »

Will you sum the donation received via patreon (or other websites, if any, one day) to those received via the website when you announce the monthly report ?
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Dirst

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1763 on: April 28, 2015, 06:36:23 am »

Will you sum the donation received via patreon (or other websites, if any, one day) to those received via the website when you announce the monthly report ?
You were expecting perhaps the harmonic mean rather than the sum?  I think you want to ask if Toady will be breaking down the the donations by source or only reporting an aggregate.

So, the real question is will the announcement be in the form of vector in RN or in the form of a scalar "taxi" norm?
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Severedicks

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1764 on: April 28, 2015, 07:35:14 am »

For sake of our melting non-mathematician brains, could you talk about it in separate thread? :P

The reason I'm asking this here is because I've been reading up on Tarn's thesis (which I should add is about polyhedral k-chains) so I figured, why not ask the man himself? Sorry if it looks out of place.
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Inarius

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1765 on: April 28, 2015, 08:00:57 am »

Will you sum the donation received via patreon (or other websites, if any, one day) to those received via the website when you announce the monthly report ?
You were expecting perhaps the harmonic mean rather than the sum?  I think you want to ask if Toady will be breaking down the the donations by source or only reporting an aggregate.

So, the real question is will the announcement be in the form of vector in RN or in the form of a scalar "taxi" norm?

No, but, he could just give the donations received via the site, and not including those received by other means. Hence my question.
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Cruxador

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1766 on: April 28, 2015, 08:18:27 am »

For sake of our melting non-mathematician brains, could you talk about it in separate thread? :P

The reason I'm asking this here is because I've been reading up on Tarn's thesis (which I should add is about polyhedral k-chains) so I figured, why not ask the man himself? Sorry if it looks out of place.
There's nothing really wrong with that, but it's just a question that's more appropriate to either a general mathematics thread or (more useful from a practical standpoint, probably) to just email him.
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Batgirl1

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1767 on: April 28, 2015, 09:49:30 pm »

With books and instruments done, what is the next thing coming up on the DF to-do list? :D
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Putnam

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1768 on: April 28, 2015, 10:28:04 pm »

With books and instruments done, what is the next thing coming up on the DF to-do list? :D

greentexted for question asking

also http://bay12games.com/dwarves/dev.html

arkhometha

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1769 on: April 29, 2015, 09:07:15 am »

Do boogeymen ever go extinct? In case of a no, do you plan to add a way to make them go extinct, since it would be kinda of strange seeing them in the Age of Fairy Tales?
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