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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 1884197 times)

Brienne

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1725 on: April 17, 2015, 05:50:16 am »

Hi Toady,

I wrote a suggestion here about "astronomy and astrology" http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=24818.msg6168773#msg6168773

One of common interest in past civilizations is astrology/astronomy. People thought messages were hidden in sky, they tried to understands god(s) and watched stars, comets, eclipses... and "explained" them.
I guess it could fit with DF universe.

IG, astrology could give clues about what happens in the world, may warns about future siege, necro/FB attacks...
Astronomy could help for travels, caravans stuff (frequency for ex), trade, special conditions stuff (stars alignment allowed special alloys and dwarves could predict that)... Artists could leave/come for astronomic events, like celtic priest gathering during full moon night,... could give astro moods...
It may needs special buidlings (mirror, glass, books,...)


Does it fit with knowledge and religion stuff you re working on? Does it interest you ?
« Last Edit: April 20, 2015, 01:53:10 am by Brienne »
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Kishmond

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1726 on: April 17, 2015, 06:58:43 pm »

This doesn't really relate to any features in develpoment, but I think it's a good question.

Why is the cap for a job order in the manager screen 30?
I frequently make orders larger than that, especially since the bigger your fort the more necessary the manager becomes.

MrWiggles

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1727 on: April 17, 2015, 07:44:07 pm »

Have you considered having Dwarves shove chairs and tables out of the way to make room to dance? Or is that too complicated for now?
Considered? I would personally be very shocked if the thought didnt cross Threetoes or ToadyOne mind. Its probably been verbalized. Though without furniture objects being very static permanent things right now. Its probably the biggest headache with furniture right now, is how static they are.



Also, stress seems to have become pretty easy to manage recently, are you making any Fun changes to encourage players to allow dancing Dwarves (besides slight increase in productivity?).

Seems like the min-maxers might not bother with dance floors at all.
Well, probably. But I think there like four kinds of DF players, and so not every feature will be used by every player type. I mean, there lots in Fort Mode player's dont have to engage with if they don't want to. They can also just go into the raws, and mute all the dorfs stress needs.
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SimRobert2001

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1728 on: April 18, 2015, 01:30:45 am »

This doesn't really relate to any features in develpoment, but I think it's a good question.

Why is the cap for a job order in the manager screen 30?
I frequently make orders larger than that, especially since the bigger your fort the more necessary the manager becomes.

Im not 100% sure, though i do know that df hack has a fix for that.
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reality.auditor

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1729 on: April 18, 2015, 05:44:36 am »

This doesn't really relate to any features in develpoment, but I think it's a good question.
Why is the cap for a job order in the manager screen 30?
I frequently make orders larger than that, especially since the bigger your fort the more necessary the manager becomes.
I think it is to force your manager to do more job. Of course, it could be solved in way that is more convenient to player. For example, you could write "56" and DF would automatically create two jobs - 30/30 and 26/26.
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Cruxador

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1730 on: April 18, 2015, 06:35:09 am »

So written stuff is books and could include scrolls, but despite already being used, not much reference was made for slabs, and engravings haven't come up at all. Do you suppose that literate dwarves might make and enjoy text-oriented engravings? These do seem to be things that are only prevalent in more modern times with widespread literacy but the Egyptians were also known for it, and it would be a good way to get a lot of book content into the fortress as well.

Logically, the most historical cases would include writing alongside graphical representations, which brings up a second question. Has any thought been given to such aesthetic concerns as illustration and calligraphy? This was pretty common practice especially in religious contexts. The monks of Western Christendom was well known for illuminated manuscripts for a good period, and the calligraphy and beauty of copies of books (most especially the Koran) have been an esteemed artform in Arabic cultures from the Islamic golden age. Eastern calligraphy focuses on short phrases, to my understanding, but is also worth incorporating in some respects probably. While that might not be a priority for the tavern release, it does tie in to the science, art, and religion themes that his release has picked up, and tavern signage (especially in German and Japanese usage) would probably use the same code foundation.

Quote from: Vattic
Will there be harder books that require greater reading skill than others?

I haven't sorted that out -- it isn't just the reading skill, but the scholarly/art skills/knowledge as well.  It seems like some books should require not only prerequisite skills but also prerequisite knowledge to understand at all, whereas others might actually implicitly provide prerequisite knowledge as well as the topic knowledge while imparting some skill as well, depending on the subject, length of study, etc.

It's vaguely related to the overall adoption of an innovation -- at some point, losing books/scholars shouldn't matter if everybody in the civ picks up a concept from an early age or there are representative artifacts everywhere, but that only applies to some things that lend themselves to cultural absorption/reproduction (some of the more esoteric innovations never get that way, even after thousands of years, or they occupying a middle ground where they'd be more obvious but not without work).
I interpreted this question differently, not referring to content but to difficulty of prose in a more fundamental sense. In real life, I wouldn't expect an adult or teenager with a low level of literacy to understand most translations of Kant, just because the material is difficult even if it might be a clever person who wouldn't have trouble with the concepts. There's also an issue of dialectal divergence, including things like the standard Freshman example where people mistake "Wherefore art thou Romeo?" to mean "Where are you Romeo?". But that's more complicated than what I would assume could be boiled down to a variable denoting level of prose and an accompanying level of reading skill needed for comprehension, with potentially an incomplete understanding (enough to use but not to write on) accompanied by a stressor for border cases.



Related to the dev log but not to development, there's been a lot of unsightly double-minus usage lately (--). You can easily make an n-dash (–) with Alt+0150 or, if you prefer, an m-dash (—) with Alt+0151. I like the n-dash better but either would be preferable to the double minus.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2015, 08:48:05 am by Cruxador »
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Fieari

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1731 on: April 20, 2015, 12:13:18 am »

With non-dwarf permanent residents, does that mean individuals will have their own civilization's moral code attached?  Or to put it in laymans terms, if you have an Elf resident, will they be dismayed by woodcutting?  Will moral codes be alterable in game, so that your Elf resident may become numb to tree death over time because of cultural immersion?
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1732 on: April 20, 2015, 12:20:17 am »

With non-dwarf permanent residents, does that mean individuals will have their own civilization's moral code attached?  Or to put it in laymans terms, if you have an Elf resident, will they be dismayed by woodcutting?  Will moral codes be alterable in game, so that your Elf resident may become numb to tree death over time because of cultural immersion?
I imagine that each elf's application for Dwarf Fortress residence involves being locked up with a pile of wood, an axe and regular visits from the hammerer. Soon get rid of those pesky morals. :)
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Untelligent

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1733 on: April 20, 2015, 01:09:38 am »

Related to the dev log but not to development, there's been a lot of unsightly double-minus usage lately (--). You can easily make an n-dash (–) with Alt+0150 or, if you prefer, an m-dash (—) with Alt+0151. I like the n-dash better but either would be preferable to the double minus.


All a matter of taste -- aesthetically, I like the double dash best, personally.
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FeralMagus

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1734 on: April 20, 2015, 09:19:05 am »

So, not sure if this has been asked before in regards to the recent set of development:

With humans being able to settle down in our forts, will it be possible to specify the size of armor and clothing we craft in order to accommodate them?
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Rose

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1735 on: April 20, 2015, 09:22:30 am »

I think this is literally what he's working on right now.
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Cruxador

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1736 on: April 20, 2015, 10:22:04 am »

Related to the dev log but not to development, there's been a lot of unsightly double-minus usage lately (--). You can easily make an n-dash (–) with Alt+0150 or, if you prefer, an m-dash (—) with Alt+0151. I like the n-dash better but either would be preferable to the double minus.


All a matter of taste -- aesthetically, I like the double dash best, personally.
Rather, it's a matter of style. The "double dash" is a style borne of inadequate keyboard skill and you'd be hard-pressed to find any formalized style which supports it; if any such thing exists it's definitely not one widely used. You'll note that all major writing software will automatically replace a single dash with an n-dash and most will do the same for the double dash. A convention created to work around a limitation is inherently not correct as it exists purely to mimic the style which was desirable in the first place. This is akin to using an apostrophe in the place of an accent.
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therahedwig

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1737 on: April 20, 2015, 10:56:53 am »

Related to the dev log but not to development, there's been a lot of unsightly double-minus usage lately (--). You can easily make an n-dash (–) with Alt+0150 or, if you prefer, an m-dash (—) with Alt+0151. I like the n-dash better but either would be preferable to the double minus.


All a matter of taste -- aesthetically, I like the double dash best, personally.
Rather, it's a matter of style. The "double dash" is a style borne of inadequate keyboard skill and you'd be hard-pressed to find any formalized style which supports it; if any such thing exists it's definitely not one widely used. You'll note that all major writing software will automatically replace a single dash with an n-dash and most will do the same for the double dash. A convention created to work around a limitation is inherently not correct as it exists purely to mimic the style which was desirable in the first place. This is akin to using an apostrophe in the place of an accent.

Seriously, you guys are really going to fight over N-dashes of all things?

Shall I give a conversation killer? Toady doesn't use a CMS for the website if you look carefully. Which means he hand-edits it in notepad. Which means that N-dash is filtered out unless he uses the unicode thingymabob for it. In other words: It'd be a bother.
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Eric Blank

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1738 on: April 20, 2015, 05:40:18 pm »

Toady, with forts now being playable with members of other civs as citizens, will there also be a mechanism allowing non-civilized creatures like tamed pets to become citizens in the same way? What will happen to the relationship between a pet owner and a "pet" who is thus considered a citizen?
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Dirst

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #1739 on: April 20, 2015, 06:51:56 pm »

There is a difference between having a visitor of another race and a citizen of another race.  Visitors would have all of the ethics and values of their home civs (with individual variation), but a citizen is a member of the fort's civ, pretty much by the definition of "citizen."  A category in between of hirelings (such as mercenaries and commissioned artists) make for an interesting gray area.

A visitor from a hippy civ should be offended by wooden chairs.
An elf who signed on to a member of your fort knows what to expect.
I'd expect a hippy hireling to be offended, but less so since they did willingly enter a contract with you knowing what you do.

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