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[Shonai_Dweller]

I imagine there are plans for each race to have their own unique instruments, but it would be also be nice to see the musical instrument phase start to introduce cultural differences between different civilizations of the same race. Dwarves from the tropical jungles with different musical styles to those found up near the terrifying glaciers. That would be a very satisfying step towards a fully realized, yet procedurally generated fantasy world.

[LordBaal]

Uh, oh... now I get it. Toady feel free to disregard that question. Thanks for the clarifications.

[Miuramir]

Why randomly generated instruments?

DF is eventually expected / intended to procedurally generate entire fantasy worlds.  It's already closer to that than any other software I'm aware of; but procedurally generating *cultures* is a seriously under-explored area. 

Music and poetry, sometimes combined into song, is one of the most powerful and obvious differentiators of culture.  Toady is working on procedural generation of all three, and that is going to be very interesting to see how it works out. 


And as for your other objection, most people are not familiar with real pre-1400 (or even pre-1600) instruments by either name or sound.  Without looking it up, which of the veena or the bandora is ancient, and which is mid- renaissance and technically post-period for DF? (1)  If someone referred to a "wait-pipe", what then-common instrument would that be?  (2)  And of the salpinx, sackbut, aulos, and zampogna, which would have been the companion instrument implied by that description? (3) 

How many of those simple, common, examples has the average DF player *ever* heard played... heck, how many of them has even the average music historian even heard played?  I've enjoyed live performances of Piffaro, an awesome renaissance band which occasionally dips back into late medieval, and they perform with a bewildering variety of instruments most people have neither heard, nor heard of... and most of theirs are several hundred years closer to familiar modern instruments. 

tl;dr: Procedurally-generated cultures demand ways that the cultures are different, and music is a great way to show that.  Additionally, most actual historical instruments have strange names and stranger sounds to modern players, to the point that in a listing of dulcian, krumhorn, launedda, fiblergausth, swarabat, tiexianzai, charango, grajabpi... does your invented "fiblergausth" look any stranger?  (All of the others are real historical instruments.) 



(1) The veena dates from antiquity (shows up on coins from mid-300s), whereas the bandora is believed to only date back to around 1560.
(2) The "wait pipe" was slang for the shawm
(3) The description implies use in a medieval or renaissance ceremonial European town band, which would typically be comprised of shawm and sackbut players. 

[Inarius]

Very well spoken, sir.

[Zarathustra30]

...Additionally, most actual historical instruments have strange names and stranger sounds to modern players, to the point that in a listing of dulcian, krumhorn, launedda, fiblergausth, swarabat, tiexianzai, charango, grajabpi... does your invented "fiblergausth" look any stranger?...

Now I mostly agree with you. However, most instruments have names similar to what they sound like, to the point where they could be considered onomatopoeia. It would be hard to replicate that with procedural generation, and there could be some mental disconnect between name and function.

[LordBaal]

That's a very interesting angle to look upon this subjet, I guess there's a lack of "musicality" in me, hence my incomprehension.

[Putnam]

...Additionally, most actual historical instruments have strange names and stranger sounds to modern players, to the point that in a listing of dulcian, krumhorn, launedda, fiblergausth, swarabat, tiexianzai, charango, grajabpi... does your invented "fiblergausth" look any stranger?...

Now I mostly agree with you. However, most instruments have names similar to what they sound like, to the point where they could be considered onomatopoeia. It would be hard to replicate that with procedural generation, and there could be some mental disconnect between name and function.

Oboe? Piano? Harpsichord? A lot of the "names similar to what they sound like" are almost entirely due to the association of the sound with the instrument, which is pretty much all a cultural thing.

[Max™]

Wait, this time next year we could have a dorf get an urge to make something awesome, run off and gather some wood, wires, a few pieces of metal, and a couple of gems... then turn them into a frickin' lightning-shooting literally "electric" guitartifact, which could then end up becoming the holy item for a church of rock?

Amazing.

[Cruxador]

*-+

Wait, this time next year we could have a dorf get an urge to make something awesome, run off and gather some wood, wires, a few pieces of metal, and a couple of gems... then turn them into a frickin' lightning-shooting literally "electric" guitartifact, which could then end up becoming the holy item for a church of rock?

Amazing.

Shooting lightning seems like an odd choice for an instrument, I wouldn't say it's something that's certainly in. Becoming a holy item of a church is also not something that's been talked about – sure, the potential is there, but it would have to be in fortress start scenarios and it would be pretty incidental to the point of that release. In the (fairly unlikely, in my opinion) even that Toady does go off that far on tangents, it definitely won't be done by a year from now.

[Fieari]

If you need to have learned (or at least heard) a music style, or poetical style, before using it-- how are new styles generated?  Would a new type of strange mood create a style, or are they only created on day one of worldgen?

[Cruxador]

If you need to have learned (or at least heard) a music style, or poetical style, before using it-- how are new styles generated?  Would a new type of strange mood create a style, or are they only created on day one of worldgen?

Toady's been talking as though they're wholly culturally-based in origin, so day 1 seems more likely. A strange mood for a poet seems way more awesome though, especialy if his legendary skill is in the use of his new form of poetry. A god giving poetry to mortals, Odin-style, would also be cool.

[Max™]

*-+

Wait, this time next year we could have a dorf get an urge to make something awesome, run off and gather some wood, wires, a few pieces of metal, and a couple of gems... then turn them into a frickin' lightning-shooting literally "electric" guitartifact, which could then end up becoming the holy item for a church of rock?

Amazing.

Shooting lightning seems like an odd choice for an instrument, I wouldn't say it's something that's certainly in. Becoming a holy item of a church is also not something that's been talked about – sure, the potential is there, but it would have to be in fortress start scenarios and it would be pretty incidental to the point of that release. In the (fairly unlikely, in my opinion) even that Toady does go off that far on tangents, it definitely won't be done by a year from now.

Well, lightning was just what I went with for the electric guitar part, and I figure dorfs can worship megabeasts that kill their families, why not an awesome rock guitar, right?

[JesterHell696]

with the upcoming addition of taverns and the recent addition of both sexual preferences and lust propensity what are your thoughts on one of worlds oldest professions, prostitution? as taverns and bars where being used as makeshift brothels for centuries and some evidence's that temples to fertility goddesses had sacred prostitution as far back as 1800BCE.

[Putnam]

That's more a DFTalk question, I think, since actual lust isn't quite a thing yet AFAIK (no out-of-wedlock intercourse... and for that matter, no intercourse at all)

[Urist Tilaturist]

That's more a DFTalk question, I think, since actual lust isn't quite a thing yet AFAIK (no out-of-wedlock intercourse... and for that matter, no intercourse at all)

There in intercourse since the gelding update, but sexual desire should be greatly expanded.