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[Tawa]

Then tabletop games for your dwarves to play!

Tabletop games, you say?

What extent shall these exist to?

If they're randomly generated, I swear I'm going to generate as many worlds as I need until I get a game called Dungeondragon or something to that extent.

[Knight Otu]

Then tabletop games for your dwarves to play!

Tabletop games, you say?

What extent shall these exist to?

If they're randomly generated, I swear I'm going to generate as many worlds as I need until I get a game called Dungeondragon or something to that extent.

Here's a relevant quote from the last DFTalk:

Toady:     ... Finally you'll be able to have games. We're trying to randomly generate some games. We'll do what we can with dice games, and board games. They've have all been around for thousands of years so it's all fair, and your dwarves will be able to gamble, he he he. And we'll be able to... We're thinking because we have it in adventure mode anyway, the ability to play games when we do that part, which we'll talk about in a second, that you'll also be able to play the games directly if one of your dwarves is playing, just to give you a chance to see it, and to experience the game.

And here's one from earlier in the thread:

Will there be any other types of games than dices ? I would be very interested if you could talk more about these (if you have already thought enough about it !)

So far I've categorized the dice, board, and card/tile games I've found on wikipedia and elsewhere, decided which ones are more-or-less period (though that doesn't matter so much), made lists, done some code experiments and thought a bit.  The idea is to randomize games starting from those templates, and then to get a little more adventurous over time once the code supports many almost-traditional games.  The cut-off for the first random games release will probably be AI based -- we don't really mind if the opponents are terrible players, but utterly random moves are annoying (if unavoidable sometimes).  Hopefully we can get at least one board game in without it being a total disaster.

[Reelya]

Water wasnt unsafe to drink, people drank booze because it tastes good, it was the coke of medieval times. Also the booze argument doesnt hold up if you have to make booze with water because you need some kind of base, so you will have all your heavy metals and stuff in your booze. With the alcohol concentrations of around 3-6% in beers you cant kill many of the natural bacteria that would settle in beer (actually for that effect you should go north of 20%) after its opened, thats why people added hops later (which we still need iirc) because it keeps the beer form spoiling.


here is an good Article on the issue

That article is good, but the guy is selective of his sources and omits numerous medieval sources which contradict his argument. That sort of omission is normally a red flag. There are more than one source from the middle ages saying people should drink beer or wine, and avoid water. And the arguments were that it promoted health, not taste.
https://zythophile.wordpress.com/2014/03/04/was-water-really-regarded-as-dangerous-to-drink-in-the-middle-ages/

Hildegard for example says not to bathe, drink or cook with the waters of the Rhine or Danube rivers. She makes no such warning about beer or wine, recommending them over water for people with medical problems of the lungs for example. So there was a definite concept around ~1200AD that brewed drinks were a safer alternative to many existing water sources, or for the infirm.

So, in other words either extreme is false: some water was seen as safe, other water was seen as dangerous, and beer/wine were seen as a safe fallback if you couldn't access clean water, and was said to be just better all round than water if you were ill or weak.

[LordBaal]

Drunken dwarves playing Warhammer 40K TT in the tavern, flipping tables and fighting to death because Urist McCheese won't play unless the rest let him use the 6th edition rules of his Necron army.

[reality.auditor]

You may have thought we were giving up, or just fixing bugs for the rest of the foreseeable future.

I would actually be happy about latter thing...

Hopefully we'll see them come into use in the tavern and temple activities soon.

Temple activities? I see Toady could not resist feature creep after all. Ah well, it is not like temples are bad thing. It just will take more time.

[FearfulJesuit]

Water wasnt unsafe to drink, people drank booze because it tastes good, it was the coke of medieval times. Also the booze argument doesnt hold up if you have to make booze with water because you need some kind of base, so you will have all your heavy metals and stuff in your booze. With the alcohol concentrations of around 3-6% in beers you cant kill many of the natural bacteria that would settle in beer (actually for that effect you should go north of 20%) after its opened, thats why people added hops later (which we still need iirc) because it keeps the beer form spoiling.


here is an good Article on the issue

That article is good, but the guy is selective of his sources and omits numerous medieval sources which contradict his argument. That sort of omission is normally a red flag. There are more than one source from the middle ages saying people should drink beer or wine, and avoid water. And the arguments were that it promoted health, not taste.
https://zythophile.wordpress.com/2014/03/04/was-water-really-regarded-as-dangerous-to-drink-in-the-middle-ages/

Hildegard for example says not to bathe, drink or cook with the waters of the Rhine or Danube rivers. She makes no such warning about beer or wine, recommending them over water for people with medical problems of the lungs for example. So there was a definite concept around ~1200AD that brewed drinks were a safer alternative to many existing water sources, or for the infirm.

So, in other words either extreme is false: some water was seen as safe, other water was seen as dangerous, and beer/wine were seen as a safe fallback if you couldn't access clean water, and was said to be just better all round than water if you were ill or weak.

Note too that beer requires boiled water to make, and the great beer belt of Germany and the Low Countries sits on top of one of Europe's best aquifers.

[Mel_Vixen]

That article is good, but the guy is selective of his sources and omits numerous medieval sources which contradict his argument. That sort of omission is normally a red flag. There are more than one source from the middle ages saying people should drink beer or wine, and avoid water. And the arguments were that it promoted health, not taste.
https://zythophile.wordpress.com/2014/03/04/was-water-really-regarded-as-dangerous-to-drink-in-the-middle-ages/

Hildegard for example says not to bathe, drink or cook with the waters of the Rhine or Danube rivers. She makes no such warning about beer or wine, recommending them over water for people with medical problems of the lungs for example. So there was a definite concept around ~1200AD that brewed drinks were a safer alternative to many existing water sources, or for the infirm.

So, in other words either extreme is false: some water was seen as safe, other water was seen as dangerous, and beer/wine were seen as a safe fallback if you couldn't access clean water, and was said to be just better all round than water if you were ill or weak.

The author did mention those medical texts but those are indeed medical texts and not well distributed nor understandable by the 95% illiterate Populace thus not commonplace knowledge. Bingen is btw. around the corner of my current Fort ... i mean Home, and as such i know the Area a bit, there a good number of cities along the Rhine and it feed-ins, rivers were the sewers of the period so that bathing or drinking from them was indeed unhealthy no question there. Even more so then the populations grew in later periods culminating the 19th and 20th century industrialisation when you could etch PCBs in the waters of those rivers.

Yet, like FearfulJesuit adds and from personal experience having lived in medieval cities (thanks to my hometown not being bombarded in WW2) i can attest that many houses had theyr own wells and and that quite a few of the public fountains were fed by the aquivers, local springs or cisterns which guaranteed relative fresh and clean water for the general city population.

My take away here is that we need medical texts (and bibles) so future dorfs can bicker about whether Water was good or bad, before industrialised brewing allowed each dwarf to bath in booze
A few basic books/scrolls/tablets for the dorfmode temples and monasteries would be awesome unless we get mostly oral traditions.

Apart from this thoughs another question:

Will there be immigrants or dwarfs that are or choose to be priests, preaching to the people in your temple? How about barmaids/bartenders and wenches?

[Jordan~]

Are there any plans to allow greater control over surface features in the raws - e.g. defining rock features, day/night cycles, light levels and other climatic conditions, and so forth? Roughly how far down the line might that be? For instance, will modders ever be able to make worlds in which it's always day or always night, there are no mountains, there's a ceiling instead of a sky, the world is divided into chambers, the sun is green, there are four moons, etc. etc.?

[Vattic]

Will mugs get a non-trade use with the new taverns?

Will dwarves still drink from barrels?

[Button]

Will there be immigrants or dwarfs that are or choose to be priests, preaching to the people in your temple? How about barmaids/bartenders and wenches?

If we have wenches, can we also have... male wenches? Whatever the male equivalent of a wench is.

[Putnam]

Lad.

[FearfulJesuit]

Of all the places in life I don't want to go, I think I don't want to go to a dwarven strip club the most.

[EternallySlaying]

Of all the places in life I don't want to go, I think I don't want to go to a dwarven strip club the most.

With cages, dumping, and chains, it could easily be done. Which brings me to a question, Can an imprisoned creature be forced to perform (with obvious risk to the health of the holder if said creature should try to misbehave)? If so would this include adventure mode, where a creature you take could be forced to perform, or, if you're taken prisoner, could you be forced to perform? Also, would this potentially be outlawed or endorced by certain groups/monarchs/deities?

I would expect this act to anger the tree-huggers cannibals Elves, potentially drawing them to war... leading to more prisoners.

It's a rather dark topic, but this is also a forum with threads like Dwarven Day Care and Merfolk farming.

[Miuramir]

Can an imprisoned creature be forced to perform (with obvious risk to the health of the holder if said creature should try to misbehave)? If so would this include adventure mode, where a creature you take could be forced to perform, or, if you're taken prisoner, could you be forced to perform?

Somehow I don't think this is going to end up as Simon Smith and his Amazing Dancing Bear (Muppet version).  But it *could*. 

[Dirst]

Of all the places in life I don't want to go, I think I don't want to go to a dwarven strip club the most.

What about when the game generator comes up with strip poker?