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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 1880678 times)

Authority2

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #555 on: October 02, 2014, 04:29:08 pm »

Did you know that dwarves had like fifty words for "rock"? :P
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Cobbler89

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #556 on: October 02, 2014, 06:05:41 pm »

In the guessing thread I already alluded to the possibility that dwarves will have many names for things being inevitable. ;^) (I don't think "It was inevitable" is ever going to get old... it achieved instant mimetic status not unlike the killer carp, completely intolerable nobles, or the dwarven obsession with cheese; like them, it will probably be fondly remembered well beyond the era when it was dominant.)

As I understand it, what makes the "[northern-bound culture here] have [surprisingly large number here] words for snow!" thing a myth isn't so much that it isn't literally true as that people mistakenly think it's completely different from the surprising number of snow-related words used by any non-tropics-bound culture. In English, for example, we have snowing vs. flurries vs. blizzards, snowbanks vs. snowdrifts, snowflakes vs. "ice crystals" (sometimes synonymous and sometimes not), frost and some variations thereon, slush when the stuff is half melted... and probably more that I'm forgetting. Now, granted, we don't have individual words for light snow vs. heavy snow, dry snow vs. wet snow (short of slush), pure white snow vs. dirty street snow vs. yellow snow... but only because we don't do compound words much in modern English.

On the other hand, cultures do have interesting words for specific, nuanced things like "the way snowbanks made of unadulterated fluffy snow shimmer in the sunlight". Even if they don't have such words in relation to snow, they have some in relation to something. And that, really, might be more interesting to come up with some stock examples to demonstrate than the mere number of words that can be had for a given thing in varied contexts.
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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #557 on: October 02, 2014, 08:30:40 pm »

In the guessing thread I already alluded to the possibility that dwarves will have many names for things being inevitable. ;^) (I don't think "It was inevitable" is ever going to get old... it achieved instant mimetic status not unlike the killer carp, completely intolerable nobles, or the dwarven obsession with cheese; like them, it will probably be fondly remembered well beyond the era when it was dominant.)

As I understand it, what makes the "[northern-bound culture here] have [surprisingly large number here] words for snow!" thing a myth isn't so much that it isn't literally true as that people mistakenly think it's completely different from the surprising number of snow-related words used by any non-tropics-bound culture. In English, for example, we have snowing vs. flurries vs. blizzards, snowbanks vs. snowdrifts, snowflakes vs. "ice crystals" (sometimes synonymous and sometimes not), frost and some variations thereon, slush when the stuff is half melted... and probably more that I'm forgetting. Now, granted, we don't have individual words for light snow vs. heavy snow, dry snow vs. wet snow (short of slush), pure white snow vs. dirty street snow vs. yellow snow... but only because we don't do compound words much in modern English.

On the other hand, cultures do have interesting words for specific, nuanced things like "the way snowbanks made of unadulterated fluffy snow shimmer in the sunlight". Even if they don't have such words in relation to snow, they have some in relation to something. And that, really, might be more interesting to come up with some stock examples to demonstrate than the mere number of words that can be had for a given thing in varied contexts.

English has the weird habit of absconding with vocabulary.  At some point we stopped trying to translate perfectly good words and just started using them.
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Authority2

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #558 on: October 03, 2014, 05:03:49 am »

English has the weird habit of absconding with vocabulary.  At some point we stopped trying to translate perfectly good words and just started using them.
It's not even a unique trait - English is just a very visible example.
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smjjames

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #559 on: October 03, 2014, 09:50:09 am »

English has the weird habit of absconding with vocabulary.  At some point we stopped trying to translate perfectly good words and just started using them.
It's not even a unique trait - English is just a very visible example.

Mainly because the British Empire spread it all over the place.
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flabort

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #560 on: October 05, 2014, 07:48:58 pm »

Ah. I wondered where the FotF thread went.
PTW for the new thread.
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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #561 on: October 05, 2014, 10:09:58 pm »

Will we have to generate a new game to get the full effects of the thought rewrite, or will preexisting dwarves start exhibiting the full range of new behaviors when imported to the new version?
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lethosor

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #562 on: October 05, 2014, 10:15:56 pm »

Will we have to generate a new game to get the full effects of the thought rewrite, or will preexisting dwarves start exhibiting the full range of new behaviors when imported to the new version?

Right now I think I can get through with a thought-wipe.
Presumably, dwarves will exhibit the new behaviors after their thoughts are wiped.
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Enemy post

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #563 on: October 08, 2014, 11:41:33 am »

Thanks, Toady!

Only Germans experience schadenfreude, zeitgeist or zugzwang! They also have 11 words for philosopher and 8 for psychologist! (someone who knows German back me up please)
Philosoph, Denker, Dummquatscher, Dummschwätzer... nope, can't get to 11, and I cheated. :P
Philosoph, Denker, Dummquatscher, Dummschwätzer, Sittlichkeitfabrik, Felsensitzen, Griechisch, fullen mit pelz, lebenhacker, klug Hans, Ubergenius. And there's your 11 words for Philosopher.

8 words for pyschologist:
Psychologe, gehirn Arzt, Sigmund Freud, dorf hexendoktor, kanapee fragesteller, gehirnhandwerker, Barmann, David Hasse..nein., geist klempner.

Note, I am not German, despite my* amazing command of the language, and translations may not be entirely accurate.
*Google translate.
   
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smjjames

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #564 on: October 08, 2014, 02:52:01 pm »

A lot of those are slang anyway.
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Knight Otu

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #565 on: October 08, 2014, 03:00:36 pm »

A lot of those are slang anyway.
A lot of them are a whole lot of nothing, actually. I don't think most of them would qualify in the original English, and babelfishing them just makes it worse (I'm not even sure what fullen mit pelz would be back-translated... "blah" with fur?). geist klempner is the closest to an actual German slang - Seelenklempner.
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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #566 on: October 08, 2014, 03:07:18 pm »

A lot of those are slang anyway.
A lot of them are a whole lot of nothing, actually. I don't think most of them would qualify in the original English, and babelfishing them just makes it worse (I'm not even sure what fullen mit pelz would be back-translated... "blah" with fur?). geist klempner is the closest to an actual German slang - Seelenklempner.
Looks like füllen mit pelz literally translates to "full with fur" which vaguely resembles the English slang "stuffed shirt" (the shirt is more useful/valuable than the pompous person stuffed into it).

I tried to Google füllen mit pelz, with and without the umlaut, and came up empty.  I don't think it's a common phrase in German.
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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #567 on: October 08, 2014, 03:25:11 pm »

Yeah, I considered that it could be "filled with fur", but I didn't think that Enemy post had much of a reason to lose the umlaut.
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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #568 on: October 08, 2014, 03:42:44 pm »

I made them up.
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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #569 on: October 08, 2014, 04:06:23 pm »

I made them up.
I had an inkling of that with Ubergenius, but what sounds silly in one language might be perfectly normal in another.
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