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[Streeter]

Ouch, yeah, switching compilers would really slow down production for quite some time. Not to mention programs that poke around memory like DFHack would have to be completely rewritten. I'm really surprised the version of MSVC he's using doesn't support 64-bit. I would've sworn that's standard, even in the free edition. Unless it's still express 2005 or something ancient.


In fact, I think I'll add that to my list of questions.

[lethosor]

It's 2010, actually. The version of gcc he uses is also from around 2010.
Edit: very little of DFHack would have to be rewritten (mostly the code that deals with vtables, which I believe works with newer gcc versions without problems). As long as it uses the same compiler as DF, nothing should change aside from some possible new compiler errors.

[Streeter]

I'd imagine that's true for switching to a newer version of MSVC, but making the jump to GCC wouldn't make all that big a difference? I'm a bit surprised by that! Shows how poor a coder I am.


Thanks for the answers. Looks like four of my questions remain, pending anyone else jumps in.

[Dirst]

Yeah I don't see multithreading helping nearly enough to be worth the problems unless we're talking about vectorizing some upkeep tasks to the GPU (with a fallback for systems without suitable hardware).  Things like temperature, lighting, structural integrity for realistic cave-ins, etc. that can survive a one tick delay.

That would be a major, major undertaking.  No, even major-er than you're thinking.

And coincidentally I am doing !!SCIENCE!! on pets at the moment, but nothing with puppies I'm afraid

[Rose]

Switching to gcc wouldn't be necessary at all. Just upgrading to a newer msvc version.

The free 2010 version doesn't support 64bit, but all the newer ones do.

Switching to a newer compiler would also bring some speed increases.

[SimRobert2001]

so, with the new donations from patreon, would it be possible to get a new compiler that is 64 bit compatible?

[Rose]

Did I mention that the newer conpilers that support 64bit are still free?

[expwnent]

Yeah I don't see multithreading helping nearly enough to be worth the problems unless we're talking about vectorizing some upkeep tasks to the GPU (with a fallback for systems without suitable hardware).  Things like temperature, lighting, structural integrity for realistic cave-ins, etc. that can survive a one tick delay.

That would be a major, major undertaking.  No, even major-er than you're thinking.

GPU programming is much harder than parallel CPU programming. In terms of work effort to value of output it would be better to do CPU parallelism, and even then it would make debugging much harder and Toady is more interested in adding features than optimization.

[Zarathustra30]

This discussion again!

• 64-bit - a tedious conversion that will take a lot of time for not much gain. Will be needed one day.
• Multithreading - Very complicated, and likely not going to happen. Massive gains. (There was some talk about parellelization being an easy conversion for for-loops, though)

This is the first I've heard of GPU acceleration for DF, but that sounds complicated. However, it sounds like a tack-on rather than a rewrite. Rip out the temperature code, write it in OpenGL (or whatever is used for acceleration), an have DF grab the results when necessary.

[expwnent]

I realize that I'm continuing the discussion by saying so but this discussion shouldn't be had here. Discussion of parallel or GPU programming in DF should be moved to the suggestions forum. Better yet, use the search button and see if someone else has already said what you wanted to say.

[Streeter]

[This post was contributing nothing, ignore]

[lethosor]

I'd imagine that's true for switching to a newer version of MSVC, but making the jump to GCC wouldn't make all that big a difference? I'm a bit surprised by that! Shows how poor a coder I am.


Thanks for the answers. Looks like four of my questions remain, pending anyone else jumps in.

DF already uses gcc on Linux and OS X

[Alfrodo]

To change the topic quickly:
When do you and Zach think you can grace us with your magnificent update? August? October? 2016?

[Shonai_Dweller]

To change the topic quickly:
When do you and Zach think you can grace us with your magnificent update? August? October? 2016?

From May report:

It's technically possible that we could get a Dwarf Fortress release by the end of the month, and I've written everything out on a theoretical daily schedule that would make it, but I suspect bugs, non-DF hassles and other issues will drag it out by a bit.  We're doing well though, in terms of not having another giant multi-year wait.

[Alfrodo]

To change the topic quickly:
When do you and Zach think you can grace us with your magnificent update? August? October? 2016?

From May report:

It's technically possible that we could get a Dwarf Fortress release by the end of the month, and I've written everything out on a theoretical daily schedule that would make it, but I suspect bugs, non-DF hassles and other issues will drag it out by a bit.  We're doing well though, in terms of not having another giant multi-year wait.

...oh, oops.

that soon? wow.