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[Man In Zero G]

Also, if a dwarf arrives at your fort with a book, or makes one after arriving, where would it be stored if you don't have a library defined?

Books are, if I am not mistaken, currently stored in finished goods stockpiles. I doubt that will change.

[Paaaad]

Also, if a dwarf arrives at your fort with a book, or makes one after arriving, where would it be stored if you don't have a library defined?

Books are, if I am not mistaken, currently stored in finished goods stockpiles. I doubt that will change.

Ah. I was really just wondering if a dwarf would stick a book they owned in their chest, cabinet, or even just under their bed if they had the option.

[Man In Zero G]

Oh. Yeah, that would probably be the case, if it's something the dwarf owns. In the chest or on the floor with whatever worn out socks they've collected.

[Kogan Loloklam]

I already brought this up in the suggestions, but how do you feel about the game producing actual music following the rules you generate? As in, simple one voice folk songs that you hear when you walk by a musician who's playing. I made a song following one of your formats by just picking random notes and rests within the chords generated for a form.

https://soundcloud.com/nethodsod/the-grasping-oaks

It should be quite easy to program, since all I did was follow the two meters exactly, and then pick a random sequence from the chords for the melody. It alternates between the two chords, and has a brief segment where I randomly picked any notes from the whole scale. That happens between 1:45 and 2:30.

Spoiler: "Text of the song I think" (click to show/hide)

A form of music used for entertainment originating in The Grasping Oaks. The form guides musicians during improvised performances. A chanter recites the words of a (name of poetic form here) while the music is played on a rofela. The entire performance slows and broadens. It is performed using the tarathe scale and in the bulifo rhythm. Throughout, when possible, performers are to use grace notes, alternate tension and repose and play arpeggios.

The chanter always does the main melody, should be passionate and is to be loud.

The rofela always does the main melody, should be melancholic and is to be soft.

The form has a well-defined multi-passage structure: a theme, a brief exposition of the theme and a brief recapitulation of the theme.

Scales are constructed from twenty-four notes spaced evenly throughout the octave. The tonic note is a fixed tone passed from teacher to student. After a scale is constructed, the root note of chords are named. The names are cuthefi (spoken cu) and cede (ce).

The tarathe pentatonic scale is thought of as joined chords spanning a perfect fifth and a perfect fourth. These chords are named aratha and fathinu.

The aratha tetrachord is the 1st, the 4th, the 9th and the 15th degrees of the quartertone octave scale.

The fathinu trichord is the 15th, the 19th and the 25th (completing the octave) degrees of the quartertone octave scale.

The bulifo rhythm is made from two patterns: the emu (considered the primary) and the otoga. The patterns are to be played in the same beat, allowing one to repeat before the other is concluded.

The emu rhythm is a single line with twenty-seven beats divided into five bars in a 7-6-4-6-4 pattern. The beat is stressed as follows:
| - - x x - - x | - - x x - x | - - x - | - - - x x - | x x x x |
where x is a beat, - is silent and | indicates a bar.

The otoga rhythm is a single line with eighteen beats divided into two bars in a 11-7 pattern. The beat is stressed as follows:
| x - - x x x - - x - - | x - x - - - - |
where x is a beat, - is silent and | indicates a bar.

This song should be accompanied by a chant. Given the name, I suspect it should be an elvish chant of an unspecified but specific poetic form. It's a primary melody done passionate and loudly. Also the chordal guidelines were 'melancholic and soft' for the instrument. 

Generated music suffers from the interpretation problem.  Toady couldn't make something that could do this justice,  although we can take the data and demonstrate the richness it represents. That is what really makes this game great. I look forward to hearing what you output on the next release, but don't expect this in the game because it isn't practical.  Unless you really want to argue my opinion of the tone being not soft or melancholic is an error on my part and most of the world would disagree? I guess he could eliminate the descriptions and make it an entire generated sound file, but then he'll have to make that poetry generator he always threatens about in the form he threatens, and a text to speech synthesizer,  and other stuff that is inconsistent with an ascii game he made.

No, what you ask for is and always will be in the realm of user created content. Inspired by DF, but made by us. Please though, make more, inspired by the legends of worlds you play in.

[stolide]

I already brought this up in the suggestions, but how do you feel about the game producing actual music following the rules you generate? As in, simple one voice folk songs that you hear when you walk by a musician who's playing. I made a song following one of your formats by just picking random notes and rests within the chords generated for a form.

https://soundcloud.com/nethodsod/the-grasping-oaks

It should be quite easy to program, since all I did was follow the two meters exactly, and then pick a random sequence from the chords for the melody. It alternates between the two chords, and has a brief segment where I randomly picked any notes from the whole scale. That happens between 1:45 and 2:30.

Spoiler: "Text of the song I think" (click to show/hide)

A form of music used for entertainment originating in The Grasping Oaks. The form guides musicians during improvised performances. A chanter recites the words of a (name of poetic form here) while the music is played on a rofela. The entire performance slows and broadens. It is performed using the tarathe scale and in the bulifo rhythm. Throughout, when possible, performers are to use grace notes, alternate tension and repose and play arpeggios.

The chanter always does the main melody, should be passionate and is to be loud.

The rofela always does the main melody, should be melancholic and is to be soft.

The form has a well-defined multi-passage structure: a theme, a brief exposition of the theme and a brief recapitulation of the theme.

Scales are constructed from twenty-four notes spaced evenly throughout the octave. The tonic note is a fixed tone passed from teacher to student. After a scale is constructed, the root note of chords are named. The names are cuthefi (spoken cu) and cede (ce).

The tarathe pentatonic scale is thought of as joined chords spanning a perfect fifth and a perfect fourth. These chords are named aratha and fathinu.

The aratha tetrachord is the 1st, the 4th, the 9th and the 15th degrees of the quartertone octave scale.

The fathinu trichord is the 15th, the 19th and the 25th (completing the octave) degrees of the quartertone octave scale.

The bulifo rhythm is made from two patterns: the emu (considered the primary) and the otoga. The patterns are to be played in the same beat, allowing one to repeat before the other is concluded.

The emu rhythm is a single line with twenty-seven beats divided into five bars in a 7-6-4-6-4 pattern. The beat is stressed as follows:
| - - x x - - x | - - x x - x | - - x - | - - - x x - | x x x x |
where x is a beat, - is silent and | indicates a bar.

The otoga rhythm is a single line with eighteen beats divided into two bars in a 11-7 pattern. The beat is stressed as follows:
| x - - x x x - - x - - | x - x - - - - |
where x is a beat, - is silent and | indicates a bar.

This song should be accompanied by a chant. Given the name, I suspect it should be an elvish chant of an unspecified but specific poetic form. It's a primary melody done passionate and loudly. Also the chordal guidelines were 'melancholic and soft' for the instrument. 

Generated music suffers from the interpretation problem.  Toady couldn't make something that could do this justice,  although we can take the data and demonstrate the richness it represents. That is what really makes this game great. I look forward to hearing what you output on the next release, but don't expect this in the game because it isn't practical.  Unless you really want to argue my opinion of the tone being not soft or melancholic is an error on my part and most of the world would disagree? I guess he could eliminate the descriptions and make it an entire generated sound file, but then he'll have to make that poetry generator he always threatens about in the form he threatens, and a text to speech synthesizer,  and other stuff that is inconsistent with an ascii game he made.

No, what you ask for is and always will be in the realm of user created content. Inspired by DF, but made by us. Please though, make more, inspired by the legends of worlds you play in.

That specific song form should have chants, yes. Also, those chords will never sound melancholic, unless you use notes outside them, or use extremely carefully considered expression. A vocalist would certainly make that easier.

What I am suggesting, is that simple one voice songs can be generated within the meters and scales generated by DF. That's what I did. I didn't put in chants, because that would be difficult to generate. The song that I made only has things that I thought would be easy to program.

The idea is that such a song is more like a jam session by the musicians in the game.  You would hear it when within a certain distance of musicians that are playing, and the song would be appropriate to the song form that the musician plays.

Toady, would you consider making key parts of the randomly generated musical forms stored in such a way that they could be reasonably easily accessed by external programs that convert them into audible music?

[MrWiggles]

Toady, would you consider making key parts of the randomly generated musical forms stored in such a way that they could be reasonably easily accessed by external programs that convert them into audible music?
[/quote]

They're more then likely in the histoy of the world. Which means you dump out as .xml files.

[Kogan Loloklam]

That specific song form should have chants, yes. Also, those chords will never sound melancholic, unless you use notes outside them, or use extremely carefully considered expression. A vocalist would certainly make that easier.

What I am suggesting, is that simple one voice songs can be generated within the meters and scales generated by DF. That's what I did. I didn't put in chants, because that would be difficult to generate. The song that I made only has things that I thought would be easy to program.

The idea is that such a song is more like a jam session by the musicians in the game.  You would hear it when within a certain distance of musicians that are playing, and the song would be appropriate to the song form that the musician plays.

Toady, would you consider making key parts of the randomly generated musical forms stored in such a way that they could be reasonably easily accessed by external programs that convert them into audible music?

I get that those notes are probably difficult to play melancholic. I'm not a musician and don't know what all the descriptions mean, nor do I know what a rofela is. I do know that upbeat music played on an indian flute can sound pretty melancholic to me. It would be cool to have a musical change as you approach musicians. Not sure what he plans now for adventures approaching it. Maybe something like "You hear music and/or singing to the northeast or something. Playing a different speical tract of music at the same time would definitely improve atmosphere. I wonder if he is planning that?

As for the xml dump, specify how you would find it useful. Like MrWiggles says, right now you are likely to get it in the same format as exists currently.

(Edit: question in blue was answered by Simrobert2001. Thanks Simrobert2001.)
Toady, will you be making a different soundtrack that plays according to events in game to improve situational awareness? Like a 'combat to the death' tract, a 'I hear music' tract, a 'I'm quick traveling' tract, exc...
And...
How do you plan to display adventures approaching music?

[King_of_Baboons]

Reading all those devlogs feels like I am watching a child growing up.

Its so beautiful.....

Please consider adding some of those awesome ideas:

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=149573.0

[lethosor]

specific suggestions belong for the most part in the suggestion forum.

[CLA]

Will we get these scholars in the fortress? (like the old philosopher)
Do you have any plans to have them create books while in player fortresses? Will we be able to create libraries ourselves (like a hospital or temple zone or whatever) and attract scholars?

I assume none of this would make it in this release anyway, but do you have plans to do this a few years down the road from now?
Edit: just noticed

The outlines are ready for [...] geographers [...]

Does this include cartography? And by extension, will that mean the world map you see in adventure mode will be influenced by your civs cartographic/geographic knowledge? Will we be able to find physical maps?
In general, will the book framework be used for anything else than actual books? I'm thinking of pamphlets, proclamations, wanted posters, and as mentioned, maps.

[stolide]

They're more then likely in the histoy of the world. Which means you dump out as .xml files.

Yeah, but I expect it's just the paragraphs we see, which means you need a text parser to pick out the important bits if you want something to just plug into DF and spit out music. If we get something that looks more like creature or civ raws, then it just has to go to the right variables and get the numbers it needs.

[catoblepas]

I remember a few years ago (?) there were suggestions that there should be training manuals of some sort that could be studied for dwarves to learn the rudiments of a craft without physically working it. Combat training manuals are of course the most famous, but my understanding is that they existed for many other areas as well. Are there any upcoming plans to include training manuals or something similar for dwarves to train skills with?

[flabort]

Didn't see this question yet, but surprised by that.
Since necros are not the only ones making books now, will we see existing professions creating books to pass down knowledge? (Fisherdwarfs giving casting techniques or guides to what fish are best when, animal trainers cataloging things that they tamed, miners keeping diaries, craftsdwarves writing about the proper usage of tools, etc)

Although the reason I didn't see it might be because it's venturing into suggestion territory, we do know that the new artists are getting books, so it's more like who else will be getting book-writing functionality?

[Ribs]

How will our new visitors react to having the fortress closed and being unable to leave, especially during a siege? Will they freak out and eventually go crazy like merchants currently do, or will they react more reasonably (either by accepting that there's a good reason for being stuck there or perhaps even demanding to be let out if there's no good reason for the fortress' entrance to be blocked)?

[Authority2]

After reading the brilliant devlog, I wish the game would tell us stories instead of us having to search the histories for them now.